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salt says it's not autism!!! I am shocked...

(40 Posts)
mysonben Thu 09-Jul-09 12:19:32

Why can all these professionals agree ?
Today was the last one of ds' salt session for this term, and salt had a chat with me , she says ds has severe language delay/disorder, but she cannot agree with the paed verbal dx of asd because ds gives her good eye contact!??? hmm
I told her he doesn't give good eye contact at nursery . She says she can only give her opinion regarding what she does see.

I bit my tongue , i wanted to say "ok so what about his "obssessions " with doors , vehicles and noises, his repetiveness,... why doesn't he play appropriately with other children, why does he get upset over the fact that our local Coop is been refurbished? Should that matter so much to a 3 1/2 years old if he was so "normal" NT i mean!

I'm upset because she will be sending her report to the paed and she will be saying that her opinion is ds has SLI but not asd.

On the other hand she is putting forward an application to a SN nursery who specialise in speech and language therapy, very good ratio of 10 kids for 2 salt and 2 TA.
She is hoping ds could be accepted and attend 2 mornings a week next term. So that 's a positive step.
I hope they accept him because he needs it badly, bless him!

bubblagirl Thu 09-Jul-09 12:31:20

its again only her observation my ds has good eye contact on one to one basis the paed is who you want to listen to

bubblagirl Thu 09-Jul-09 12:37:00

dont forget though the paed would do check list of things you need to have so many traits to be dx if these are present then he will be dx but its possible to have SLI and autistic traits but the paed is the only one who can dx this dont worry yourself just wait for assessment and outcome

mysonben Thu 09-Jul-09 12:50:47

Bubblagirl- yes as you say it's only her opinionbased on her observations. But as the peaed has asked all involved, ie: nursery , Senco, Salt (and soon or later ds will be assessed by an EP.) to send her a report on their observations of ds , if the salt says "SLI but not asd" won't that be having an impact on the paed 's final decision?
The trouble is that now i have been trown into the ASD issue by the paed , i really believe ds has asd, on the mild end of the spectrum definately but he has it , i know it .

And i'm fed up with people who always go back to his language problems and think that's the only issue here. IYKWIM?

silverfrog Thu 09-Jul-09 12:50:53

eye contact isn't one of the dx criteria, though. it's not in the triad of impairments.

dd1 has excellent eye contact on a 1 to 1 basis, but is most definitely autistic.

amberflower Thu 09-Jul-09 12:51:56

I am not surprised you are feeling frustrated - your professionals do seem to be batting you from pillar to post! But as bubblagirl says at the end of the day the paed is the one who can diagnose, not the SALT.

All I can say is that my DS has a confirmed ASD DX as you know and his eye contact is and always has been great. He can be reluctant to make eye contact with new people for the first hour or so of meeting them but that was all we ever really noticed so just put it down to shyness. He will also avoid eye contact if being told off or if he is trying to avoid doing his homework but I think that's a 5 year old thing not necessarily an ASD thing!

If it makes you feel any better our SALT also commented on how good DS's eye contact was, we also have no speech and language issues at all but the paed still DXed ASD. I am sure your paed will take SALT's view into account but won't automatically change her mind because of it.

Great news re the nursery though. Will keep everything crossed he gets a place there.

bubblagirl Thu 09-Jul-09 12:55:24

the paed isnt going to dx your child on word of a SALT it is after all only an opinion it will be how he reacts within and out of pre school the home his behaviour in certain areas etc

eye contact my ds has good eye contact he can vary day to day but on one to one looks straight at you larger groups his eyes flitter away and struggles to hold contact

well my ds was dx and it was not on eye contact but how he carried out tasks reacted to certain situations and over all behaviour

amberflower Thu 09-Jul-09 13:04:51

And as silverfrog says it is about the triad of impairments - not so much the secondary characteristics though obviously these add weight to the DX so to speak...

If your paed thinks along similar lines to ours she is likely to go along with DX based on key issues at nursery. I wouldn't say my DS actually meets the triad of impairments outside of the school environment - for a while I'd have said he perhaps did at parties but have seen big improvement in the last three-six months. But he definitely does show elements of some of those impairments at school and that is what they are concentrating on.

mysonben Thu 09-Jul-09 13:06:29

Yes you are all right. The salt is only giving HER opinion based on the salt work she does with ds, not on his behaviours or interactions with his peers.

Does anyone ever got a written dx by a paed solely relying on reports made of observations from nursery/school/ senco, EP ,... i mean without actually doing set tests like the ADOS or ADIR? Just curious?

mysonben Thu 09-Jul-09 13:14:37

Bubblagirl- Again i see our ds are very similar, with the eye contact my ds is like yours , his eye contact varies according to the environment, at nursery in a large group it's bad, with the senco on 1:1 it's good, with salt 1:1 it's good (although i can 't help but notice how he always fiddles with his hands near his face when he has to interact).

Amberflower- Here as well my ds shows he has issues all relating to the triad , but secondary symptoms are not so obvious.
My ds will not look at strangers neither (but he is ok with professionals wink) and often "growls" softly when a stranger speaks to him!

bubblagirl Thu 09-Jul-09 13:20:51

my ds always has fingers in mouth on 1-1 and interaction licking his fingers his arm fingers in mouth

my ds hides from strangers will turn his head away or squint his eyes shut once he knows them he'll happily speak or interact but on his own terms

sunfleurs Thu 09-Jul-09 13:21:32

Our Ed Psych seems sceptical that ds has ASD and her recommendations reflect this. He has however been diagnosed by a Developmental Paed so I try not to let it worry me too much. However if he ends up not getting a statement because of her reports then I may well just explode. I come away from every conversation with her feeling very unsettled and frustrated.

My ds also has excellent eye contact with family members and trusted staff members.

bubblagirl Thu 09-Jul-09 13:22:21

only just spotted your pics his adorable grin

5inthebed Thu 09-Jul-09 13:34:34

DS2 does a lot of eye contact as well with familiar people. He will look more past you rather than at you sometimes, but usualy his eye contact is ok.

Focus more on the paed rather than the SALT.

mysonben Thu 09-Jul-09 13:34:49

Thaanks ladies for your input , i worry toooo much about everything and it really helps to get your views and opinions because honestly sometimes i just cannot see the whole picture!
hmm i wonder where ds gets that from??? HE he he grin

fanjoforthemammaries7850 Thu 09-Jul-09 15:00:27

Our SALT just said the exact same thing today, but this was because DD is improving so much and so rapidly in her interaction as her speech and language improve, which lead her to lean in that direction. She did say its too early to say either way as DD is only 2.8 though.

It is hard and confusing when people keep saying different things, isn't it, a bit of a rollercoaster!!!

I hope you get the correct diagnosis and the help which your son needs.

bubblagirl Thu 09-Jul-09 15:47:11

are the SALTS your seeing just SALTS or autism trained?

cyberseraphim Thu 09-Jul-09 15:55:16

DS1 has near normal eye contact (now at 5). I think it can be an indicator (though not in dx) for a much younger child but I would not put much faith in it if there were other signs of ASD. It's a shame these urban myths about autism are still going around

fanjoforthemammaries7850 Thu 09-Jul-09 17:10:42

the SALT we are seeing is autism trained...

bubblagirl Thu 09-Jul-09 17:24:34

then they should be more aware that autism isn't all about eye contact its everything else that comes with it but then again im no professional and don't want to dx any ones child

i would personally always listen to paed and my gut instinct

magso Thu 09-Jul-09 17:43:14

Ds got a dx of autism at nearly 8 without an ados test, However he has profound language delay and mod/sev LD and is more classically ASD so not hf. We were in the system for 4 years ( due to lost referrals/ reorganisations/ being turned down etc)before we got this far and ds was by then in a sn school. He was discussed rather than assessed by a panel of people (having read mountains of reports) including 2 psychs who sent a report to his paed recommending an asd dx. Not a path I would recommend though -life is much less frustrating now we know.

Just another thought, in our area language units do not admit dc diagnosed asd - only those with sli/delay. Does the salt think the unit would suit your ds ( whatever the eventual Dx) and is 'playing the system' ie recommending admission?
Good luck with everything!

fanjoforthemammaries7850 Thu 09-Jul-09 17:44:11

My DD doesn't have any eye contact really, except with us occasionally, so the SALT wasn't going by that. She does have the other traits but they appear to be lessening so it's a waiting game until she is a bit older I think.

I would listen to paed too, although would like to believe what SALT told us today!!

Anyway didn't mean to hijack OP's thread blush

amberflower Thu 09-Jul-09 18:43:40

mysonben in response to your post of 13.06 - yes my DS got written DX following reports from OT and SALT plus observations by class teacher and SENCO, but no ADOS or ADIR - must confess I've never heard of either. He has also not yet been assessed by an EP though we are now pushing for this.

My DS was not actually assessed or observed by the paed, she just did a semi structured interview with us whilst DS was working with SALT and OT, and then used their feedback.

I can see definite similarities between your DS and mine as both seem to struggle mainly in the school/nursery environment and not at home.

mum2fredandpudding Thu 09-Jul-09 18:46:13

my son gives good eye contact to people he has repetitive contact with... and is asd.

not really SALTs place to say that i dont think? surely not as trained as a paed specialist? suprised that one would tbh!

perhaps they just like to confuse us!

no-one seems to have any clear idea of what is and isn't - particularly the professionals... ;)

i curretly like to think that EVERYONE sits somehere on the spectrum, my son just a little bit firther to the left than me

mumslife Thu 09-Jul-09 19:53:57

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

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