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Here are some suggested organisations that offer expert advice on SN.

sorry, can i vent for a mo?

(29 Posts)
misscutandstick Tue 07-Jul-09 11:15:41

GRRRR i am soooooooooooo annoyed angry angry angry

DS5 (as you probably all know) is starting nursery in sept.
1. He has autism
2. He is non-verbal
3. He has the understanding of a 12-18mth
4. He has pica and
5. He has no sense of danger
6. He is a runner
7. He has many food intolerances which are extremely detrimental to his health.

SO WHO in their right mind would send a 12mth baby to school and expect them to conform asnd learn?

who would think it OK for him to go to school to be educated and stay safe when: he DOES not understand instructions, does not learn by watch/mimic (he doesnt copy), does not even answer to his name? He will however play the same way with water/sand for hours if allowed to. hmm

Yet some F*wit sitting in his office thinks he will be just fine hmm angry just to save money.

GRRRRR im so angry

misscutandstick Tue 07-Jul-09 11:16:21

sorry i am refering to the fact that he has been refused assessment for statement. blush

Seuss Tue 07-Jul-09 11:21:22

angryon your behalf. So he's not even being assessed for a statement - that's awful!

sickofsocalledexperts Tue 07-Jul-09 11:24:59

You can appeal you know, or just send a letter to the HEAd of SEN at the council suggesting that given the above points 1-7, you are consulting your legal representatives as you feel that the council will be exposing DS and his peers to a health and safety issue by leaving him in school with no assistance or statement. Point out that they will have failed in their duty of care if your child runs into the road, or throws a piece of electrical equipment into water around other children due to his inability to understand the concept of danger. That is all legal code for : you fuck with me, I will sue the hell out of you! It may be that such a letter will re-focus their mind on the need to assess without you actually having to go down the legal route. Good luck! IPSEA website can also help.

Seuss Tue 07-Jul-09 11:30:30

When my ds1 got refused a statement I wrote to the Education Chief Bloke (sorry in a hurry can't remember title) and pointed out why the school was dangerous for ds, included things like the gates always being left open to busy road,how they couldn't deal with his physical outburst, being sat in the lobby of a hut all day where he got frustrated and threw furniture. It worked, we got our statement and moved to a special school (via an exclusion or two). So I'd back sickof's idea about a stiff letter.

misscutandstick Tue 07-Jul-09 11:33:45

thanks SOSCE, I had heard rumours that a stark refusal can be overturned without tribunal/appeal, but was a little sceptical.

I have been to see local MP and hes supporting via mail (when it arrives).

Parent Partnership were crap and basically tried to talk me out of it! then conceded to "why dont you have a meeting and a chat with him and see if he changes his mind?" hmm seems extrememly lame, and im not in the habit of begging. legally speaking im up for an arguament tho!

but if a correctly worded letter would do the trick? has this actually worked in RL or is it just best to appeal... or both???

Does the appeal (OMG i havent even checked on this blush go to the same person, as the original request? or would putting a copy of the appeal in with the letter (along with the MP's support, it cant hurt can it?) help move things along a bit???

I feel i ought to use this anger positively.

sickofsocalledexperts Tue 07-Jul-09 11:34:17

Very true Seuss - schools and therefore LEAs are shit-scared of being sued under health and safety legislation for failing in their "duty of care" to protect all children from harm - so that is a good angle to use with them. Person to write to is Head of SEN at LEA, who may actually be the person misscutandstick's letter is from.

misscutandstick Tue 07-Jul-09 11:35:14

thanks seuss, x-post.

so, it seems it can work then?

misscutandstick Tue 07-Jul-09 11:38:41

yes, it was the head of LEA that looks at the requests. So i need to write back to him and enclose copy of appeal and MP's letter.

Its not just that i want him taken care of (BTW) I have taught him over 70 makaton signs (between looking after another 4 children and running a house and attending endless appts) so it proves that he can learn given the right opportunity.

misscutandstick Tue 07-Jul-09 11:40:38

sorry for the ramble,

but should i stick to safety and care issues, or the fact that he is entitled to an education, but he has different needs to be able to learn.???

sickofsocalledexperts Tue 07-Jul-09 12:00:48

I think throw it all in - they know really that your son needs a statement, but I reckon that LEAs play a numbers game nowadays. They know that 80% of poor, broken down parents will do what they are told and never apply for a statement, then another 80% who get the turn-down letter won't appeal. It's the small minority who create merry hell who they (sometimes) back down for. I threatened legal action at a very early stage, and actually never had to take it as they saw I was one of the 10% who was going to COST THEM MONEY if they fucked with her. Their duty in law is to provide an education "suitable " for your child's special educational needs - tell them that without even assessing him for those needs, which are clearly significant, they are acting in error. The MP's letter is great too. Try not to be too rabid in how you write, but more measured and calm, but firm, as you need to give them a human way out without total loss of face. Perhaps end the letter on a note of "I wonder if, in light of the above new points, you might reconsider the need to assess my child for a statement of SEN, as I believe I have shown there is a good case to be made". They will then assess the cost of legal action to them (considerable) against the cost of a statement. I don't know your borough, but it worked here for people.

sarah293 Tue 07-Jul-09 12:16:26

Message withdrawn

Seuss Tue 07-Jul-09 12:19:03

Yes, it was the head of SEN we wrote too. School were going to attempt an appeal (apparently they had cocked up something to do with no. of hours ds was at school) but I didn't really see that we had much to add to an appeal and the problems were pretty urgent re. saftey/exclusions etc. I wasn't stroppy or anything, just pointed out the safety aspects, I'd say just include whatever you've got. My letter was quite 'personal' in that it came about as ds had just been excluded again and refused a statement. we had just moved house so it wasn't even typed (and I have no copy - pah!) I think it was money in this case, as the school had been funding support in nursery so think the LEA probably assumed they'd just carry on like that but they wouldn't.

Way I see it - you've nothing to lose.

lou031205 Tue 07-Jul-09 12:34:51

I wonder if it is the fact that it is a nursery? Our area has a pot of money that is used for SEN funding for pre-schoolers, accessed on recommendation of Area Inclusion Officer, no statement needed.

Also, they are not legally entitled to a nursery education, so wonder if that makes them more reluctant to assess.

angry for you though.

misscutandstick Tue 07-Jul-09 12:43:14

lou - we too have a 'pot' of money type system (nottinghamshire), however the {warning long story alert} woman who is to allocate said money had an operation for carpel tunnel (apparently) and is off ill, the person who is to organise the funding is being a bit crap. But quite honestly what that has to do with my child and his needs i dont know. That really isnt my problem.


because of this, no-one knows precisely how much money is allocated, and probably wont until september {hopefully hmm they say}. so im left in limbo not knowing if my child is going to get the support he actually needs. the hushed rumours are "well usually you get an 15hrsp/w pro rata" hmm

that means that he MIGHT get anything from 7.5hrs perwk (part time for nursery) to maybe if im lucky: 1hr supervised per day.


I DONT NEED "he may or may not get help, but we're not telling you until september". angry

misscutandstick Tue 07-Jul-09 12:45:17

i found out the other week that if you apply before the child is 2, that they HAVE TO ASSESS by law!

notice that no-one told me that before his 2nd birthday, and we've been in the system since he was 3mths!

mummysaurus Tue 07-Jul-09 13:51:13


having my own battles here and I'd agree with sickof that they don't expect you to fight back so it can really work. I may be making small progress with getting help for ds [over the top expectations emoticon]

it is shocking that nobody told you about the cut off date of two angry

don't let the bastards grind you down grin

anonandlikeit Tue 07-Jul-09 16:33:08

Misscutandstick, do you have a paed or psych that can request it for you.

We had a "working together" meeting with all of ds2's profs when we highlighted that he had been refused the request for assessment.

Ths psych wrote a letter (followed apparently by a stern phonecall) & suddenly they were willing to assess.
I think she just scared outranked the LEA SEN person.

moondog Tue 07-Jul-09 16:35:58

It's nothing personal.
They refuse most at first.
Just go through the correct processes and yuo will get one.

IPSEA are so helpful-an absolute lifeline.

Seuss Tue 07-Jul-09 16:49:39

It bugs me that they refuse most at first though, it's not the kind of thing you bother to do for fun so why do they have to make it so hard. I should say though, that despite some initial problems my LEA have been quite good since then.

moondog Tue 07-Jul-09 16:56:28

They refuse them because they cost a fortune and there has been a huge increase in them in recent years with notihng useful to show for extra money spent.

That's their problem, not yours though, and as long as thry insist on employing armies of utterly untrained and unqualified 1:1 assistants to support your child (24 000 of them in England alone at last count)the problems will remain.

These people are expected to assimilate the 'advice and support' of a raggle taggle disparate 'team' of 'specialists' all of whom have completely different agendas.

Whole thing is a mirage and nothing but a mass of utter ineffectualness.

Seuss Tue 07-Jul-09 17:16:35

Good point about the untrained 1:1 assistants. Ds1 had a lovely 1:1 in nursery but she didn't have any training and wasn't really up to the task by the time he got to year 1. You can really see the difference between the TA's at his special school and the ones employed as 1:1s in many mainstream schools and I can see they aren't going to get the same results - not their fault though if no money isn't given to training them. I'm going round in circles in my own head just thinking about it - I think 'mass of utter ineffectualness' sums it up pretty nicely.

Even following the correct processes is difficult because information is not forthcoming, things like no-one mentioning to misscutandstick about the 2yr old cut off.

Anyway, I think I've done enough venting myself now so I'm off to stop my kids murdering each other.

lou031205 Tue 07-Jul-09 18:21:05

Sorry misscutandstick, I had no idea, was just trying to help a little. DD gets full 1:1 through the system, but will need a statement for school entry. I hope you get the assessment quickly smile

moondog Tue 07-Jul-09 19:23:40

Mind you Seuss, generally speaking very little is spent on training assistants in special schools.

If they spent a fraction of what they spend on bloody ballpools and sensory rooms on training in evidence based practice, things would be a lot better for everyone.

You wouldn't expect any other skilled person to pick stuff up by osmosis like is expected from people in the field of SN which by its nature, demands driven properly trained people.

misscutandstick Tue 07-Jul-09 20:02:59

ANON - we do have an Ed Psych but she is negative sad, that said havent asked her directly to step in and back me up, shes not back in the office until tomorrow, but i have left many messages that she cant ignore and will get in touch with her first thing.

MOONDOG - dear lord that is awful statistics. its so frustrating, the very people who need the training arent getting it. and the training they give to the wrong people (teacher training days? hmm) is crap and useless anyway.

LOU - sorry if i came across a bit blunt and offensive, im just really annoyed about the whole crappy system. It seems the more 'help' they offer, the more red tape they put in place to make sure you dont get it!

thanks for all replies XXX

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