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Every child matters?

(24 Posts)
alfiemama Wed 03-Jun-09 10:55:54

Can anyone explain this to me?

The reason I am asking is Alfie's (4.5 asd) teacher came up to me yesterday, after her saying that caterogorically no, he could not repeat reception but would have to go up to yr1 due to a full class and insurance probs.

She said she didnt want to get my hopes up but had found a loophole in the system with this "Every child matters" and that she has had a child drop out as moving to OZ and that she thinks Alf would not cope moving up a year and has asked for a meeting to see if he can repeat.

We are currently looking at moving districts (not 100% as would only do if would not affect Alf too much) if this is the case if he went to a new LEA would this rule still apply.

Also has anyone moved LEA with an sen child? he isnt statemented yet but applying for ESAP funding (I know this means he needs to be in the boundaries of Lancs) but does it still get transfered over if a different school, so if we moved would he be able to start at reception class again. Sorry its all very confusing.

If we moved outside of the boundaries ie from Lancs to Greater Manchester do you think it would be more faster paced?

Hope all this waffle makes sense hmm

alfiemama Wed 03-Jun-09 16:25:41

perhaps its doesn't smile

bubblagirl Wed 03-Jun-09 16:38:02

sorry only just seen thread have no advise i'm afraid ds is 4 just going through statement process at moment

didnt want to leave unanswered though good luck with it all x

bubblagirl Wed 03-Jun-09 16:39:01

found this if it helps

alfiemama Wed 03-Jun-09 16:45:49

Thanks Bubblagirl. I had a look at that but doesnt really seem to say anything lol.

Good luck with statement.

bubblagirl Wed 03-Jun-09 16:53:31

lol typical well good luck hope you get some answers i'm still trying to get my head round it all

alfiemama Wed 03-Jun-09 17:19:18

I know its so confusing at times. Im sure we will get there lol

anonandlikeit Wed 03-Jun-09 18:01:05

Hi Alfiemama
I'm not sure about the every child matters stuff, the only words of advice I would say is to ensure that you get it in writting that if he is to repeat a year, it is formally approved by the LEA & will carry forward with him throughout his school life, (if that is what you want) including deferring his transition on to junior & secondary school.
If it is done by informal agreement between you & the school when he comes to the age to leave that school & move on to the next school, neither you or the school can delay that move as his school places are determined by his D.O.B UNLESS under extreme circumstances a written agreement is reached with all parties.
My friend & her ds were caught out with it, they thought he was held back a year, BUT in fact ended up being forced to move on to his next school even though he was in a yr below ll the others moving up. Does that make sense??
It actually in the long term did more harm than good as he had totally missed his last yr at primary & didn't really know anyone that was moving on to his new school.

AttilaTheMeerkat Wed 03-Jun-09 18:47:12


Many LEAs are very reluctant indeed to hold back any child a year.

Re his educational needs I would now seriously consider applying for a Statement for your son from the LEA.

ESAP funding may come up short in terms of support; statement is legally binding unlike other plans like School Action Plus.

lingle Wed 03-Jun-09 19:14:43

All I can say is it can and does happen. DS2(turns 4 in August) will repeat his nursery year this year then enter reception at 5.0. His entire education will be offset by a year - all agreed with Bradford LEA.

So there are no legal reasons why you can't do it - it's a question of policy reasons.

One argument that I think held sway with my LEA is that his SN are likely to be milder if he stays in reception whereas in year 1 you'll just end up needing more expensive extra support.

catok Wed 03-Jun-09 22:39:56

I have a Y11 pupil at the mo who is a year older than the others through SN.
It can happen - you need very clear reasons why it will be better for him academically and socially. I'd think you have a strong argument considering his ASD, especially if he could stay with the same teacher for a second year.
'Every child matters'? Except mine, is the usual cynical answer!

coppertop Wed 03-Jun-09 22:49:44

I know of a couple of children who have stayed back a year for SN reasons. They had statements though so I don't know how much of a difference that made to their individual cases.

alfiemama Thu 04-Jun-09 09:37:35

Hi everyone, thanks, sorry I couldn't get on the pc last night. Hubby nicked it smile

Anyway the teacher did say she has spoke to someone at "County" so I assume they are going through the proper channels. However she said it would involve a meeting, I assumed with proffessionals but she said between the teachers and us the parents hmm

I also said to her that I had heard that it can make them miss a year but she said they could try and bring him upto speed and maybe he join YR2!!!!!! (really cant see this happening).

I am going to apply for a full statement, we have give the esap funding a good go but Teacher said it could be 8-10 weeks until we hear. They are so blumming slow, it took a month for them to type up a form to send.

Hubby is very cynical as we put a note in his book suggesting a meeting to see what would happen if he only gets part funding (paed said to appeal) but I know school can put the other half up. She had a word with me and then said nothing they can do until they hear back. The next day she told me a child had dropped out!!! Hubby thinks this is a bit of a coincidence. Im not sure, I like to see best in people!!!

I really don't like the idea of Alfie having to miss the last year, he finds it hard to make friends as it is. To be honest I do think he will be in a sn school by then though. Even paed said we have to see the potential in him but may have to go to a sn school, its just a suck it and see.

I started applying for a statement with Ipsea but then paed said about ESAP I put it to one side. Think I will have to carry on with this.

My friend said maybe Greater Manchester would be faster paced and things may get done quicker for him, anyone had any experience of this?

alfiemama Thu 04-Jun-09 09:38:41

I also can't see anything on the site about every child matters about this. So do you think could be a smoke screen ifykwim?

magso Thu 04-Jun-09 09:56:18

I do not know (I am not a teacher) and am just speculating but there is a lot going on at present in my county with ECM or more specifically consultations with parents etc for EDCH (every disabled child matters)and I was wondering if the call for greater flexibility from parents may allow schools more flexibilty to meet their pupils needs.
There was no flexibilty when ds started school ( 5 years ago) I did try but also there was a shortage of nursery places. So I can believe that if a place has become available combined with perhaps less rigid rules ( as 5 years ago) this might give bargaining power! Just guessing though!

alfiemama Thu 04-Jun-09 11:40:26

Thanks Magso, thats very interesting.

I hope so. As I would like to think that the school are doing as much as possible.

Ironically just had a letter from the paed saying this.

Following my referral to the complex communication and social interaction team, we discussed Alfie at the team meeting. We agreed that Alfie will need further assessment. However we would like you to refer Alfie to the Ed Physc for an assessment so that Alfie can be provided with extra help in the meantime.

I am also referring Alfie to Cinical Psychology, who should be able to help parents and school in dealing with Alfie's obsessional and sometime challenging behaviour. The waiting time for an ADOS is presently 8-12 months.

I do hope the form that I have filled in with the school (caf I think) is for the Ed Physc.

Dragons den idea! They should have SEN planners like wedding planners lol

Peachy Thu 04-Jun-09 11:53:58

Hi Alfiemama smile

we moved school with a child as that satge unstatemented: I wouldn't personallya dvise it as without the statement you end up back at stage one, ins ome acases in every way- a friend came in from a brief stint in the US and even had to get a re diagnosis (we ahd to start from scratch also as we emigrated..... from Somerset to S E WAles PMSL)

I;d say good luck but... on the holding abc- we tried to get ds3 dropped a year for school satrting and it simply wasn't do-able despiote his SN and a late July birthday I'd like to think things are changing though.

alfiemama Thu 04-Jun-09 12:19:11

[grin[ at the emigrating bit.

Thanks Peachy. I think Im going to have to bite the bullet and get a statement, I just keep putting it off. Think I'm scared lol.

I darent even ring that number you gave me. I think a part of me things it will all magically fix itself hmm but reality is seems to be worse than we initially thoughtsad

Peachy Thu 04-Jun-09 12:24:34

Get in the system early, you can actually get a statement with little in it but at least then you have the dx and some minimalprovision guaranteed for iirrc 6 months post move

Am looking at calling those peole again myself, ds1 is asking to go to a SNU now as he can't take the numbers at school.... school says no need on one hand then are referring him as being at high risk of criminal (ie volent) behaviour ahnd reduced life chances on the other- bizarre! Head leaving in Sept so sort of hoping new one a bit less tolerant IYSWIM so it can all come to some kind of head

alfiemama Thu 04-Jun-09 12:38:50

I know, I need to stop being a fanny and pull my finger out grin

That is bizarre, I do worry about those statistics that say they will go onto take drugs and be more inclined to be criminals. Tis scary.

Just to go off subject a min. Can I ask you Peachy, your boys have AS don't they? is it possible for a child with asd to have a sibling the same. Just a lot of behaviour with my 2.5 yr seems to mirror Alfie's and I'm not sure how much is copied and learnt behaviour.

I know AS can go down the Family line but not sure about ASD

Peachy Thu 04-Jun-09 12:47:38

One of mine has AS/ HFA, the other ASD - asd can go down a family line also, indeed there are big research projects looking into it atm; ds4 ws due to take aprt in one but the travelling got fiddly.

DS4 was given a 20-80% chance of asd with his family history.

Im not sure how the as- asd thing worksd but there are quite a few famillies on with the same combo ofdx's. Intertingly ds2 has also been flagged as asd /adhd which is also thought to be linked so amybe it's related to some form of genetic expression issue, or wahtever (fora basic exampe, say if three genetic triggers are ticked you get asd, then maybe 2 give as or whatever- that's nto an actual research idea btw LOL)

Trouble with asd's is that not enough is know, it is mostly sepculation. I once wrote a Uni essay on the idea that instead of asd ds1 had in fact sustained brain damage in his birth (eclapmsis, IUGR) in certainareas which would indeed mimic asd with some extra ds1 featyres such as aggression 9that relied on him having SPD which he clearly does as the SPD area and violence areas are clsely located).

I have clear traits of As at best, as does my Mum and my Grandad. Why ds3 has become more severely disabled we don;t know, but it's inconceivable to me there is no link

alfiemama Thu 04-Jun-09 14:03:03

Well I never knew that, thanks Peachy. Glad I asked the question now.

I always thought Alfies, because it was asd and not AS was perhaps because of the Clomid as it says it can be related, also I had a very difficult labour and he had to be rescussitated (sp!).

I also think my dad has clear traits and I once did a test on the net and said I was likely to be aspie.

As Alfie is getting older though he is showing more aggression.

Ds2 is showing more and more signs. Doesnt like fluff or anything spilled on him, if I change his duvet cover, it has to be the same one put back on. Wont walk anywhere at the moment wants to be carried, yet very good at walking. Same dvds again and again. Yet he is very clever compared to Alfie who is more delayed. If anything he is too clever ifykwim.

But then how much of it is learnt behaviour or terrible 2's. Just don't want to miss the signs with him.

TotalChaos Fri 05-Jun-09 23:40:16

good luck with sorting out schooling. Peachy and others will know more about statementing than me, but I would be very concerned that if you move to another area you would end up at bottom of waiting list for ADOS etc. Might be worth calling the Manchester branch of NAS (I know that Bolton has a very good ASD support group) to see if they can give you a rough idea a to whether moving would improve things or not.

alfiemama Sat 06-Jun-09 16:10:31

Sorry TC just seen this, thanks. We think we are going to hold off the move for 12 months to make sure that Alfie gets the best.

I'm glad I asked everyone though as we are having a meeting next week to discuss the deferred year. Thanks again everyone.

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