Dyspraxic/asperger's DS not coping at secondary school - and I'm not coping either!

[cinnamontoast]

Hi, first time I've done this, though I've had loads of support just from reading through Mumsnet before. My DS is in year 7 and we are finding secondary school SO hard. He tells me everything's fine but he has no friends and I know this upsets him, and he clearly isn't keeping up with the work, despite everyone agreeing that he is bright. Have just bought him a laptop as handwriting is very difficult for him (his books have huge blanks in them, which makes homework almost impossible at times) but he won't get it out at school as he doesn't want to seem different - he used one quite happily at junior school. I'm battling with the SEN dept, which seems to have its own agenda for him - lots of social skills groups (which he pretty much just takes the piss out of -and I don't blame him for being fed up with them; they really don't seem to help), plus help with organisational skills. I want them to give him one-to-one support in lessons and they're reluctant. Have just had parents evening where his teachers tell me he can't cope unsupported in class; the SENCO says he has to learn the skills to cope on his own. In the meantime, Yr 7 is nearly over and he seems to be hurtling towards GCSEs and can still barely be persuaded to write a title down in class, much less anything else. He just blanks out a lot of the time in class. Can I insist that SEN put one-to-one support in place in lessons? His Statement is quite woolly on that issue. Would be so grateful for any advice. I don't know any other parents whose children have these issues and feel v. isolated.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Hi cinnamontoast,

When is the next annual review due for your son?. If not for several months, I'd request that this is brought forward.

What does part 3 of his Statement say re actual support (does it give a set number of hours per week for instance?).

Would suggest you seek independent advice also from someone like IPSEA as they are very good also on such matters. Their web address is www.ipsea.org.uk. Their website as well is very informative.

ACE and SOS:SEN may also be worth contacting.

You may have heard of Parent Partnership who could assist but many of these work very closely with the LEA and are thus not fully independent.

HTH a bit and good luck!.

You are your child's best - and only advocate. Never forget this.

[cinnamontoast]

Attila, Statement says an LSA 'needs to be available for 2 hours a day to ensure he is organised'. Junior school interpreted this as one-to-one support; secondary school seems to think it means he can go along to the SEN dept and ask for help if he needs it (he would NEVER ask for help!). Next AR is coming up soon - good point. I haven't tried IPSEA but will do so. What are ACE and SOS:SEN?
Thanks so much for the advice. I know I have to be his advocate but often feel I'm failing him because I still don't totally understand the system or what he's entitled to. And the SEN dept seem to be the masters of spin!

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Hi Cinnamon,

Both ACE and SOS;SEN are advisory organisations for parents re educational needs.

ACE's website is detailed below:-

www.ace-ed.org.uk

Do get in touch with IPSEA and or the above and with some more knowledge behind you you'll be able to kick ass with the school and their useless SENCO!. My guess for what its worth is that they don't really know what to do with your son. It may be that ultimately you may want to find him another school to attend.

You are NOT failing your son so do not do yourself down. You've come on here and asked for advice. Obtaining the Statement as well for him no doubt took some doing.

Good luck, go get 'em!!.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

sossen.org.uk

[cinnamontoast]

Attila, I think you're absolutely right that they don't know what to do him. When he started, they wanted to put him in a lower-ability group (despite good SATS) because he'd get more support there. I said he had to go in a group that matched his ability, but with support. So they've put him in the right ability group but seem to be content to watch him sink rather than give him one-to-one in class.

Thanks for geeing me up! Feel better equipped now to tell them what I think's best for him!

[vjg13]

The wording of the statement is very vague and it may be worth getting the EP to see him before the annual review so that you can ask for this to be amended to more help and spelt out in much clearer way.

IPSEA are good but it can be hard to get through so keep trying!!

I have found sos sen really helpful too

I think it may also be worth looking at other schools and see if there is a school that could better meet his needs.

[cinnamontoast]

Have just had a quick look at SOS SEN and it looks brilliant - wish I'd found it years ago. Thanks, vjg13, I hadn't thought of getting EP involved again but it would be useful - DS has changed so much since starting secondary school and is clearly facing different issues there. Is it the EP who has the most influence in terms of Statements?

I wondered about trying another school eventually but he hates change and I think the friendship issues would just go with him. He's good at being friends on a one-to-one basis but can't cope with a room full of boys (can't say I blame him!).

[amber32002]

Hello!

So, he has no friends, he's not keeping up with the work, he's hardly able to write anything down, he's finding the social skills support to be of no value in the way they're doing it (we can't see people! We can't cope with more than a small amount of social interaction because our brains have nowhere to file it! Parking us in a whole group is like sticking us in a battlefield with all the guns being fired and bodies flailing about all over the place, then telling us to play nicely!)

So, he's blanking out in class because of the overload, the teachers reckon he needs one to one support...

...and the SENCO says he will just have to learn to cope?

Does the SENCO, by any chance at all, also believe that children who are blind can just learn to see, or that children who are deaf can just jolly well learn to hear? What about the ones in wheelchairs? Are they just going to have to learn to stand up and walk?

Words nearly fail.

He can't just make this go away. And they're not taking it seriously.

Everything he's doing is a clear indicator that the existing support is not working. They need to start again, from scratch, working out what actually helps.

Definitely get in touch with the links suggested already.

I went through school with no ASD support (there was none in my day) and it was hell. I still can't access higher education because it's too difficult for me, so I do know what sort of challenges he's going through. Brilliant that he has you for a parent, fighting for him.

[Hassled]

I can't get my head around the vague, pointless, shiteness of the phrase "an LSA 'needs to be available for 2 hours a day to ensure he is organised'." Agree that trying to get the wording clarified would help enormously and if you have a review coming up, that's the perfect chance.

Ask for a rereferral to an Ed Psych and be persistent re the appointment; in the past I've rung SALTs/OT etc departments almost daily. The sooner he can be re-assessed, the sooner the changes can be made.

There are some fantastic SENCos around but unfortunately still the odd one who is a complete waste of time and space. It sounds like you've been very unlucky.

[cinnamontoast]

Amber, thank you for making me smile, and for summing it all up so brilliantly. The school keeps telling me he has to start trying to take responsibility for himself - as you say, it's like take up your bed and walk!

[amber32002]

He has to try to take responsibility for himself?

They so need a lesson in brain design.

Think of this way, if it helps: Most people's brains have a 'central common sense co-ordinator' who spends his or her time sorting out all the incoming info from eyes, ears, skin, nose, tongue etc, and working out what it is, what it relates to, and what might or might not need to happen. Very handy, too.

We don't have one. It's totally missing. We haven't got it. There isn't one. It's not like we have one and he's just sleeping! We honest to goodness don't have a 'common sense co-ordinator' That bit of our brains isn't there.

Asking us to 'just get organised' really is the exact equivalent of asking a child who is blind to "just see". A few of us are ultra-organised for some things, e.g. collections of things in perfect order. But many of us can't organise any part of our day to day lives successfully without some sort of help, because our brains take every bit of info and dump it in a big pile on the brain's floor in a big and useless pile. Well, everything except info on our hobbies and special interests. That gets filed

I'd be suggesting that they need extra training, fast.

[troutpout]

oh my word


Ds is in year 7 (aspergers/dyspraxic) also. My ds is apalling at organisation...beginning work etc etc. Without support he would very quietly switch off and do very little in class.
He has no statement...but has funding for 15 hours a week.

ds doesn't have 1 to 1 but has a lot of support (they work it really well tbh) In effect he probably gets more than 15 hours because of how they share the support out.

I felt like you when ds was at primary. (god it was shocking)Secondary has been wonderful so far The support he gets is fantastic...communication is fab.

You really must kick up a fuss a bit...this is apalling. The poor lad ...
Amber is right ..it is disgusting to just say 'he'll have to learn to cope'

He bloody can't!!!!...it's not deliberate...not something he turns off on on!

And the support should follow him (ds is in top sets)...he shouldn't have to chase after it.They are getting the funding.

It's blardy depressing tbh

[TallulahToo]

cinnamon & trout: I am even greener on these issues but wanted to wish you both well. I have no experience, yet, of statementing but would it be possible to change the statement to reflect the changes in the childs needs?

[laza222]

Hi Cinnamon,

I don't have much advice but just wanted to offer my support. My nephew was recently diagnosed with ADHD and then ASD a couple of months later (Aspergers to be precise). His twin brother at the same time as the ASD diagnosis, was diagnosed with ADHD and was told he had Aspergic traits, so it has been quite a hectic few months!

My nephew has no statement at present but is in the process of getting one (same age as your son). At the moment he has a lovely SENCO (who is apparently only temporary unfortunatly). She lets him keep his books in his room and acts really as someone he can talk to and offers support when needed. Unfortunately most of the other teachers have been really really shitty! At first his form tutor was supportive but now he doesn't seem to believe there is anything wrong and is ignoring the issue!

Anyway, I'm sorry I can't offer advice but just wanted to show my support as I am incredibly close to both my nephews and have been there from step one of this whole diagnosis thing (and before when they was apparently just naughty according to primary school).

[milou2]

Hi Cinnamon My older son is 13 now. Dx with HFA/AS in the autumn. He "coped" with loads of help from me for yr 7 and 8. Then hit the buffers in this yr 9.

I tried to send emails detailing the things he said, his upset behaviours etc, so there is a trail of evidence. The school have known that there was a big problem from the autumn because of this. I emailed more than one person each time, so it couldn't be ignored.

We got an ed psych report done. I went on strike and refused to help with homework any more, my husband had to do that, and some of the upset mornings and evenings! He sent a couple of emails too.

Finally the school have arranged for him to do all his homework at school in their learning support area, using a lap top for similar reasons. All his books are there in one place, they help him sort out what he needs each day. He literally has no homework to do at home, we can be a family in the evenings. I was on the verge of Home Ed, I think they could tell that! One subject has been dropped and his sports time has been also used for these homework sessions. Clearly time had to be found from somewhere.

My younger HFA son stopped coping earlier on, in yr 5, and is autonomously home ed. I was unaware then of HFA and how it is affected by standard school expectations.

Best wishes for finding a solution which really works for your son. This is his childhood after all. Can you tell I feel dreadfully guilty for allowing the school experiences both mine have had? Do better than me

[cinnamontoast]

milou2, it's really interesting to read how the school has finally managed to reorganise things to help your DS. Homework is such a headache, isn't it? DS comes home from school with his homework diary half completed and only a vague idea of what he has to write about; we open his school books and they're three-quarters empty because he hasn't been able to get stuff down in class, and we frantically have to try to gather information to answer a question that we're half guessing at anyway. I LOVE the idea of him doing it at school with support, and will put this to them. I have repeatedly asked for his teachers to write homework down for him and it just isn't happening. The trouble is, it IS hard to realise that he genuinely can't help it. I get hugely frustrated with him myself at home - often I've asked him to do something and got him to repeat it back to me but a minute later he is not aware what I've said or even that I've said anything to him at all! He just doesn't have the survival skills to cope with the classroom without help - and I feel much more confident now to push for that support for him, so thanks everyone. Fortunately, he's not really aware of how bad things are, apart from the friendship issue, and he even looks at that in the best possible light (the boys are 'too busy' to talk to him).

Troutpout, thank you for reminding me about the funding. I think they're spending it all on social skills groups and stickers (stickers! he's embarrassed by them). I will ask them exactly where the money's going and insist they put some proper one-to-one support in place.

I did think that once he had a Statement and funding was there, everything would be straightforward, but it turns out it's just the beginning!

[amber32002]

Cinnamontoast, is there any sort of special interest club going at the school? Some run an environment club, or a computer club, or anything like that? We can find it so much easier to make a friend from our special interests, because it's something for us both to focus on instead of social conversation and eye contact? If not, would the school consider setting one up that would help him but also encourage some of the others?

I learned about friendships from reading books like the Desmond Morris Manwatching one. Until I understood all the arm waving and face-contorting and group-forming, none of it made any sense to me at all. It might be worth him reading something like that, so he can start to interpret other people's behaviour. 90% of friendship seems to be about learning to smile and learning to listen to what they say and respond in a kind way to it, even it's learned responses like "good grief, really?" We often have to learn these by rote, because we're so overwhelmed with the social input that we can't think straight. Worth a try, maybe?

An ordinary social skills class (rather than a specialised ASD one) may be causing the exact problem it's trying to solve: Putting us in a big group in the hope that we'll get better social skills from it is sometimes a bit like putting a child who's blind in the middle of an art gallery to see if that teaches them to see. He'll perhaps be so overloaded by the group that nothing will sink in.

[troutpout]

cinnamon...at ds's school they also have a homework club every night which children on the spectrum particularly are encouraged to attend. Ds doesn't go ... as the strategies put in place to ensure he can do homework work for him (the home/school book is a lifeline for me tbh). It's all about communication tbh isn't it?...if something goes wrong and i don't get a message...or if his homework planner hasn't been checked by each teacher(this has happened on 2 nights since last sepetember) ..then it is seen that the support as failed...and they apologise. Ds is in no way made to feel it's a failing on his part.In your case it seems as if they are trying to blame their shoddy support on your ds and also you!
I can remember having the same experience re homework as you when ds was at primary and before he had his dx.. It's just not good enough to be honest it it? In the end i just sent it back with a note saying it could not be completed because he didn't have the information. YOU are not there...if you are to support him at home with homework then you need the information.

ds's school have made a big thing about creating 'safe' areas at breaktimes.breaktimes are very hard for ds so it was one of the first things i asked. He is usually in geography club or in the library.Plus breaks are very short (15mins and 35 mmins)..and this helps

Ds's school are running a social skills group supported by a local autism group next half term...and he already attends one out of school run by a local charity.I'll see how it goes though...tbh although us nt folk always want our children to 'make friends' and 'fit in'...ds is happiest on his own or when he can chose to drop in and out of social situations...a formal thing is rather nightmarish tbh ...i think he spends rather a lot of time at them just shutting down...and i wonder about their 'value' for him.

I really hope you get some things sorted out for your boy...he is being very short-changed.

let us know how you go on and good luck!

[flyingmum]

Hi

This is appaalling and I work in SEN in a school plus having a SEN son and another one with diabetes (buy one get one FREEE!)

You need to kick serious butt. Get the head involved BE A COMPLETE PAIN IN THE ARSE. Ask for the AR to be brought forward. Say the school are not meeting your son's needs. Document evidence. Research some private special schools. LEA will be shit scared - put the heavies on the SENCO - lo and behold you will get some 1 to 1. If there is documented evidence that he had 1 to 1 in junior school then he should get that in senior.

Are there any other local secondary schools that you could transfer him to? It might be worth havign a look. I cannot understand why your son doesn't get any hover support - ie, not a velcroed TA to him but a TA who supports him and probablly a couple of others - I would say this is what he reads as if he needs in English, Maths, Science, Geog and History. You won't get anything in Music, Art or DT unless he's bonkers (technical teaching term there) and he doesn't sound as if he is.

At the very least the teachers need to be giving him DIFFERENTIATED WORK (which is bloody hard to do with a class of 30) but they could print off worksheets for him and make sure that they write in the homework for him. Laptops are good although not suitable for every lesson and power supplies can be a bugger. Your SENCO frankly sounds crap. Send him to me - we'll have him he sounds lovely!