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ASD - Enzymes major improvement !

(41 Posts)
DeepThoughts Mon 30-Mar-09 00:01:00

Hi,

I have just starting giving my son digestive enzymes 'Kirkman Labs Enzym Complete With Dpp-Iv-Enzym' and in just 2 days the changes that I am seeing are so startling.

Yesterday I was watching him playing on the PC and he turned and stared at me like really STARED, he then smiled so naturally and said hiya. It was so natural, and something that I dont think i can explain to family and friends.
Also he gave me kisses today but again they were so different. Normally he just puts his lips to mine and i do the kiss effect, today he kissed me (so perfectly timed), he did this a few times.

His normal sing song voice tonight seemed to be becoming much flatter and normal.
Tonight he asked for milk on his cereal (normally he will only eat it dry) and i cant quite explain he just looked so 'in control' eating with the spoon.

He is experiencing some negative reactions as well, he is quite sensitive, up and down.
Also it seems that textures are bothering him more than normal(pillow material, rug on his feet, trousers etc...)

Its just a bit overwhelming and i feel as if i am dreaming and about to wake. we have seen many positive effects before, but this one is so extreme.

He is also taking probiotics, eyeq fish oils, multi-vitamins and epsom/apple cider vinegar baths.

He is at school tomorrow and i dont want to mix it with his food when i cannot watch over him.

Has anybody else given this particular enzyme?
I have read that enzymes are not at all harmful, is it quite commonly given as a suppliment by other mothers on here?

jabberwocky Mon 30-Mar-09 01:54:13

Oh wow! I have been thinking of adding enzymes. We do a similar regime of probiotics et al but I am definitely going to order some enzymes. thanks so much for sharing.

misscutandstick Mon 30-Mar-09 07:35:28

I found the same results by removing the gluten, wheat and dairy (and SOY!). We did start giving him the enzymes, but then he went thru a very rough patch and we couldnt decide what was causing all the probs so we went back to basics and it all calmed again. We still have the enzymes and do intend to start again.

I agree, he was a more 'alert' and 'alive', more kind of 'with us' child, and continues to be so without the foods that were in effect 'poisening' him. But i still want to give the enzymes a go...

Incidentally, my mother has the same gastro-intestinal problems (to name but one!) and she has been on the enzymes since we first gave them a try and she says she feels so much better. She has less headaches and tummyaches, her diabetes overall levels are lower, her rhumatoid arthritus levels are the lowest they've ever been in 10yrs, so i do think that they are very worth giving a go - and as it states in the instructions, if your body doesnt need them, them no harm done, it 'just washes thru', but if you do need them it makes an enormous difference.

hmm, you've spurred me on, going to start giving them a trial again - DS5 is reasonable stable ATM, and its monday!

DeepThoughts Mon 30-Mar-09 10:32:30

I read so much about the enzymes before I ordered them, but I was still not prepared for such changes.

misscutandstick, It is interesting that you mention your Mum hveing rhumatoid arthritus as my Mum is also a sufferer.

My little one is at school right now and I didnt put any enzymes in his packed lunch.
I am looking forward to the easter holidays now, hopefully by the end of them we will be through the worst.

ICANDOTHAT Mon 30-Mar-09 12:02:38

DeepThoughts Can I ask where you purchased them from?. A really good friend of mine has been 'umming and arring' about giving these to her two son for ages (both ASD).

I will show her your post for support. I'm assuming they are totally safe for children (sorry,if I'm being thick - am just a bit paranoid about some supplements).

Meanwhile, I'm so happy for the positive affect it's had on your ds smile

Seuss Mon 30-Mar-09 12:17:31

DeepThoughts - you mentioned pro-biotics as well, what type do you use? I tried to find some a while ago but could only find 'not suitable for children' products. Also interested to know more about the enzymes. Gotta dash now but will check on this thread later - very interesting, thanks!

DeepThoughts Mon 30-Mar-09 12:32:54

Hi ICANDOTHAT, I got the enzymes from here - www.nutricentre.com/p-20376-kirkman-laboratories-enzym-complete-with-dpp-iv.aspx .

I too am a little paranoid about suppliments but so far the positive effect seem very outstanding. Like I mentioned in the earlier post he is more sensitive right now and a little emotional, but he is very happy. I asked him how he was feeling and in his words he said "I'm happier than the happiest person and even more!" - I guess the Happy child effect is happeneing then!

He is also taking other suppliments, Probiotics, multivitamins, fish oils and Epsom baths. I think that together they seem to be helping a great deal. I really do feel paranoid about giving suppliments though as I am pretty much doing this alone I seem to hit a brick wall when I ask any professionals for help or advice.

misscutandstick Mon 30-Mar-09 12:38:34

The vast majority of my mothers problems are caused by Autoimmune problems - hence the asthma, rhumatoid arthritus, etc. She is VERY intolerant to wheat and gluten (which shes only just found out), and it has caused her system to be permanently 'on alert' because its been fighting off the wheat as a threat. And therefore making all her other symptoms worse as a result of her {damaged} immune system, trying to do a half arsed job, very badly and attacking her own body.The intolerance also causes the 'leaky gut' problem, which she suffered from but wasnt aware of that until she removed it from her diet. (leaky gut being the problem where tiny holes are made by foodstuffs which itrritate the lining of the gut - but like i say its calmed the food intolerance thing down by being able to digest the foodstuffs, sorting out the leaky gut and so on.

A good yahoo group for info is here and the place we get the enzymes from is here

ICANDOTHAT Mon 30-Mar-09 12:42:38

How old is your dc? Does it say on the pack they are safe for kids?

I know what you mean by hitting a brick wall. My son is dx ADHD and although he is not medicated, the powers that be keep coming back at me (when I want to discuss alternative treatments) with amphetamines !! Not over my dead body !! (without offending anyone who's dc is currently taking them). He is coping really well with supplement and diet intervention ..... at the moment.

ICANDOTHAT Mon 30-Mar-09 12:48:08

Misscutandstick that website answered my questions - Thanks !

DeepThoughts Mon 30-Mar-09 12:55:03

Seuss - I was giving him the biocare Strawberry Acidophilus in his juice, but it seem to give him a tummy ache, and also I felt it didn't desolve very well (a few big lumps). It tasted fine though.

I have switched this now to a Kirkmans brand as well [http://www.nutricentre.com/p-15369-kirkman-laboratories-acidophilus-hypoalergenic.aspx] - this does seem to have much more strains in it so I am only giving him a small amount (about a quarter of a teaspoon) in yoghurt.

The multivitamin has been a bit hit and miss because for a long time I gave him the boots A-Z Mulltivitamin and mineral. Initally this really helped him, but over the winter he started getting dark eyes and pale face. The Pediatrition ordered blood tests so i stopped the vitamin so we could get true results relating to his natural levels.

Within a few days without the vitamin he became really withdrawn, hyper, settee slamming again, more unco-ordinated and severly anxious. His school told me he was really having a hard time (they were unaware we stopped all suppliments, and were shocked when thhey realized the difference). However his pale colour and dark eyes improved dramatically whilst off the vitamins.

5 weeks after stopping the vitamin he did seem to be a little more stable, but one night he was hiding in the back room because his Grandad visted and he asked for a vitamin He said it was to make him 'not shy'. I gave him one since he had been without for 5 weeks. After 3 days we stopped again as the dark circles came back. The vitamins have iron in them so I thought it was that, but when the blood count results came back it seems he is a little low in iron?

I have now also bought the Kirkmans Multivitamins and I have been giving him half the dose, but I think i will stop these for a while and see how he does on the probiotics and enzymes alone.
It seems that he does have an overload of something???
He does still have slightly dark eyes that come and go, but I guess he is doing a lot of adjusting right now.

hungryhippo21 Mon 30-Mar-09 13:09:27

very very interesting as I also have rheumatoid arthritis and asthma. Dont know of any intolerances though probably not discovered them yet!! Do the enzymes come in liquid from when I looked I could only see capsules. Do you break the capsules and add them - how do you get them in the food??

DeepThoughts Mon 30-Mar-09 13:22:15

I have made chocolate cubes, I saw this reccomended on here somewhere. I melted some cooking chocolate and poured this into ice cube trays. When it cooled (but still runny) I added some enzyme powder to each square and mixed it around. I put them in the freezer. When I go to give him one I take the cube (from the freezer) and chop it into 6 pieces and give this to him in a tiny bowl. He get so exited as chocolate has always been a special treat.

I have eaten one too and I cannot taste it at all.

I then give him his meal about 10 minutes later.

From what i read the enzyme becomes 'active' when it contacts water, but not oil. It will remain active for about 4 hours.

nikos Mon 30-Mar-09 13:34:02

Hi, so pleased that this is working for your son. I got a book to read on this recently so it's on my mind. How did you know which enzyme to give your son?

hungryhippo21 Mon 30-Mar-09 13:45:54

sorry also where do you get you epsom salts from???

DeepThoughts Mon 30-Mar-09 13:50:00

I read a lot of articles and heard a lot about the enzyme DPP IV being missing in autistic children. Also we tried exclusion diets, but my little boy reacted to everything Phenols, Wheat, Milk, Oxolates, Sugar, Additives etc... Really his ears burn from eating broccoli!

It seemed that the problem wasn't so much what was going in, but what was already in there (yeast I think...)

I decided on the enzyme I got because it is a broad spectrum type that will break down lots of foods.

Also I read that when given the enzyme can also break down candida and help heal the gut as it will take the strain off digesting foods.

I ended up going to Kirkman Labs because they seem to have the right combinations of things I was researching. They also have a beginners guide on the main page of their site which was very useful.

hungryhippo21 Mon 30-Mar-09 13:51:02

oh ffs trying to do 5 things at once - how much do you put in the bath and how often do you use it?? Sorry for all the questions but finding this very interesting

DeepThoughts Mon 30-Mar-09 14:13:02

Not a problem, Im happy to share what I have found out works for us.

I get the Epsom salts from here: www.dietaryneedsdirect.co.uk/ .
A friend of mine also requests a bag when I order as they help her daughters constipation. Its strange but both my DS and her DD use to act the same when they needed to go to the toilet. They paced up and down the room rambling in a fast quiet voice that got quicker and quicker until they just had to go.

I put the salts in his bath (about half a cup) every 3 days - it used to make a massive difference in many areas - and I literally saw a good effect when he was in the bath. He showed better eye contact and just happier overall. He was also much less anxious the following day. I think they are still effective with calming and communication, but he is not as withdrawn as he was when I first got them (about 10 months ago).

They are meant to do a number of things (draw out toxins, ease constipation, activate enzymes). The hotter the bath water the more effective they are.

Heres a shocker I have polycystic ovaries and last year I went 8 months without a period (this is common for me). I was feeling a little stressed one day so I had a Epsom bath. I got a pain in my tummy the day after and 2 weeks later a period this has happened a couple more times now, it seem that when I bath in them it promotes me ovulating if I am late! i guess it helps my system too!

You can read about Epsom Salts here www.enzymestuff.com/epsomsalts.htm

Unfortunatly my DS is still constipated, he likes his bath almost cold. I read enzymes are supposed to help bowel movements but so far nothing - We are on day 3! I will give him pineapple juice when he gets home, this normally helps.

DeepThoughts Mon 30-Mar-09 14:25:29

Important though apparently diarrhea or loose stools may result if children drink the bath water.

jabberwocky Mon 30-Mar-09 14:58:04

This is a very interesting thread. We also use the kirkman supplements for the most part. Am off to buy some epsom salts now

Seuss Mon 30-Mar-09 18:40:43

Thanks for the info - I'm going to check out all the websites tomorrow and try some things in the easter hols. Always a bit wary of trying new things in term time incase they have adverse effects on toileting or behaviour. It's tricky finding things that you can sneak into ds' diet too - good tip with the chocolate squares tho!

jg3kids Mon 30-Mar-09 20:58:06

Hi all

Karen De Felice has written books about enzymes and autism. You can get her books quite cheaply at Amazon 2nd hand. She spoke at the Treating Autism conference in March and was very interesting.
Enzymes were really good for us too!

j
x

LoveBuckets Mon 30-Mar-09 22:23:11

This is a good food intolerance test kit if anyone is not sure where to start with diet changes:
Food detective

hungryhippo21 Mon 30-Mar-09 22:36:36

have just ordered the salts as i used to use them for my arthritis and hey me and ds1 can have lovely bath together and may be we will both feel better

Saker Mon 30-Mar-09 23:17:01

I have wondered about this from time to time, but these days Ds2 doesn't really have any bowel problems. Does anyone know if there is any point in trying enzymes with an autistic child without symptons?

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