does anyone have any words of wisdom? (toilet training)

[silverfrog]

so, we have decided to take the plunge with dd1 (yes, i know - it's Christmas, we've just meved house, she's changed schools, etc - not a good time, you would think), but we reckon she is more than ready because:

She was telling us when she was wet
She can hold for hours
She is happy to sit on the toilet.

So. we are 4 days in, and whilst not a disaster, it is not going perfectly (does anything )

We have ony had maximum 2 accidents per day, which sounds great, but she only goes 3 times a day, so with the nappy on first thing (from overnight), that mean no actual success (as in wee in toilet).

So, where do we go from here?

She is happy to sit on the toilet, and even asks to do so.

She is dry the majoity of the time - she wees and poos first thing, then wees around 11.30-12.30. She might poo over her lunch time rest (she still has a rest for an hour or so - she asks to go up for a rest, and the quiet time benfits her. She obv has a nappy on for this, as cannot ask to go to the toilet). Then she wees again around 5.30-6.30 in the evening.

All good so far, but I was wondering whether there is anything I can do to help her make the connection to wee on the toilet? She is happy to sit there, but just does not connect it with wee/poo. When she does wee, we whip her into the toilet asap, then lots of praise and reinforcement. I think, though, that she is asking to go sit on the toilet so that she can get chocolate buttons, but hasn't made the connection that she gets them after a wee, not just for sitting there.

We will soldier on for now, as she is doing so well, and is very regular, but if anyone has any thoughts, I'd be grateful

[cyberseraphim]

It does take a lot of time for the idea to click so unfortunately for an autistic child, there is no method that does not require a much longer time period than would be even imaginable for an NT child.

Ditch the nappies ? Get cloth training pants. I think you once said you were using cloth anyway but the trainer pants are much thinner.

Get a doll that wets ? I think girl dolls are easier to get than boy dolls.

If you continue to give her chocolate drops, would she understand if you said 'No choc until you make the toilet wer?' Or a version of that in simpler language ? 'Wet then chocolate'

[silverfrog]

The thing is, what is a reasonable amount of time? I know it will take a while to click, and am happy to continue for a good while yet (we've barely started, really), but what's the difference between giving it time for her to make a connection, and letting her learn that weeing wherever you happen to be standing is ok (as we are obviously not making a big deal about accidents)?

Ditching nappies - can't ditch overnight, as she cannot get from her room to bathroom on her own (can't open the door!). The lunchtime ones will go in due course. She still has her rest at the momnet, so has to have a nappy (I do explain that she is only wearing one as she cannot ask to go to the toilet - whether that goes in or not, who knows). I do not want to give up her rest just now - it's Christma, etc, and my step-children will be coming to stay for a week or so soon, so she needs to be able to retreat and have her routine as comfort. But In January, she is going to school 4 afternoons, from 12-3, so the rest will stop then anyway as she will not be able to have one for most of the week.

She is in normal pants for the rest of the day - don't mind the accidents as they are not every 5 minutes...

The doll is an idea - might try that. Both dds are getting kitchen/food/high chair/pram set for Christmas, so an extra doll would fit right in... Will have a hunt.

As for the chocolate, we do just that. She skips up and chirps merrily "want to sit on toilet" so off we go. She loves doing it. She loves taking trousers down, pants down (she is most tickled by the word "pants" - toilet humour hear we come ), loves her toilet seat, and will sit there happily, for a good length of time (and is easily distracted to stay there if I feel a wee is imminent)

Then she announces "I want to get down" (nicely) jumps off, loves pulling up pants/trousers - looks at the toilet and says "maybe later have a wee in toilet" (or similar encouraging thing that dh or I have said), reminds me to turn the light off, and tells dd2 to mind fingers as she closes the door. The whole thing is thoroughly enjoyable for her. We are slowly trying the wee first, then chocolate. Or "make toilet wet, then chocolate" but it will be slow progress, i think.

She si happy not to have the chocolate, btw. I do genuinely think she si confused by when she gets it (ie after a wee, even though she has started the wee elsewhere) and when she doesn't (just sitting there because she feels like it), so it's that connection that needs forging. Maybe I will try the doll.

[silverfrog]

well, this afternoon she came instantly running up after she had had an accident, saying "oh, all wet. wet nappy. wee on toilet" and then she asked for chocolate. So she has tied up the choc with the weeing (when she sits on the toilet but doesn't produce, she doesn't ask for it).

So, persevere is the way to go, I think. yesterday she started weeing, then held on and did the second half actually in the bathroom (today i was rescuing dd2 from certain injury in the kitchen so could not keep as close an eye as I would have liked to on dd1).

we will get there, i am sure.

[TinySocks]

No words of wisdom from me. Sounds like your doing really well silverfrog. And only 4 days in. I think you'll be there sooner than you think.
How old is dd?

I am still trying to get DS dry and it is proving to be without a doubt the most difficult task I have undertaken since I have memory. I think I have developed a few wrinkles and some white hair in the progress.

[silverfrog]

dd is 4.4

It does sound as though she is doing well, but that is only because she wees so infrequently. She hardly drinks anythng at all (has had drinking issues for a good 3 years or so), and so she has few accidents only because she hardly ever needs a wee.

This also means we only hav a couple of chances each day to train her. She will take forever to crack pooing, I am sure - she prefers to poo in private, so atm she poos first thing, and might over lunchtime during her rest.

However, she won't let me leave her in the bathroom to do her business, even tough she would vastly prefer to do her stuff in private So we could be here a while....

[dsrplus8]

have you tried giving her a drink when shes on the toilet? or just before- 10 to 20 minutes is usualy about the time toddlers can last without weeingon a full bladder!have lots of pictures about toilet/pants .you could also try putting "fake wee" down the loo (water and yellow food colouring) and show her,(sounds mad but if it works ????).think your doing great,im not brave enough to attempt to potty train dd4 yet!

[kettlechip]

Hi Silverfrog, all I can say is keep going, ds suddenly just clicked with it and hasn't looked back. We had the chocolate buttons link too! He still asks for them occasionally.
The fact that she is so aware of being wet, and knows where it should go sounds good. It's just a matter of it all coming together, I bet you're only a few days off that.
I worried about the pooing but we never really had a poo accident at all, a couple of near misses when he had a dodgy tummy (nice) but he seemed to grasp that fairly easily.
Back in August I honestly thought we'd never get him potty trained. It took about a month of really gentle perserverance and we've been totally accident free now since early September. Now he just takes himself off and I don't think twice about it, even when we're out and about. Good luck!!

[silverfrog]

sadly can't give her a drink just before, as she has major drinking issues. on a good day she'll drink 200ml of juice all day. On other days (like today) we are lucky if she has 100ml. This is why she can hold on forever!

Fake wee is a thought - will bear that in mind! TMI but have had her in with me when i need to go, and we talk about it afterwards etc.

That sounds really good, kettlechip - I like the sound of a month or so for training, could definietely cope with that

I was hoping to get dd2 interested as well (nearly 2) - thought maybe since I'm doing it all, then could get her on the road too, but she isn't having any of it, sadly. She knows what's going on, but will not sit on the toilet at all. Will have to hunt out the potty, that might catch her interest... Would be great to have them both trained!

[cyberseraphim]

It does sound as if they are many positive signs so hopefully if you just stick at it, the magic click will happen. I am thinking about starting DS2 (24 months NT) soon. He has potty trained all his stuffed toys so far so hopefully that is a good sign too.

[r3dh3d]

Rather than ditch the nappies, what you could try is to make the nappies feel wet like pants. This was an extremely cunning plan I had in hand for training DD2 (NT but very contrary) though in the end didn't need it. So here I am recommending something I've never tried myself but it sounds good in theory! You would have to cut up some pieces of towel or similar - something that holds water well - and put one lining each nappy like the gusset of pants. When she wees she should then get the "wet" sensation which would a) make it easier for you and her to spot when she is weeing and b) hopefully be unpleasant so she will be more amenable to going in the loo. Obv you then have to wash your liners like cloth nappies but if it's only 2 a day it's not a big deal and better than wet clothes/sofa/carpets if the process is going to take a while.

The drink thing is your real problem (sympathise, my DD1 drinks about as much as yours) as if she drank more you'd have a much better chance of catching a wee on the loo and thus having something to reinforce. I suppose you have tried keeping a very accurate diary of what she drinks when, and when she wees, to improve your chances of spotting a pattern?

[silverfrog]

hmmm, well another morning of dd1 doing her camel impression - I woke her this morning, and she had a dry nappy - yay! i thought, we should crack this today.

wrong!

By 1pm when she went for her rest she still hadn't wee'd . and she was doing ok on the drinking too (prob about 100ml over the morning)

Still, there's always this afternoon

I do think her problem is not knowing what she is supposed to be doing coupled with a desire for privacy (even in nappies, she prefers to be able to leave the room to do her stuff by herself). She was very close this morning to weeing on the toilet - asked urgently a couple of times (after a drink), but I think she can't quite work it out.

She also prefers to be standing up I think, so think she may be confused by the sitting down bit.

there is, of course, also the fear of changing a well established routine - I do think that once she's managed it a couple of times she'll be sorted though.

I don't think the nappies thing would help, r3dh3d - she was always in cloth nappies until recently (outgrew them, and I haven't bought the larger size; have temp given up with dd2 as well as she has such foul nappies all the time) so she is used to feeling wet and thinking nothing of it - she doesn't like wet trousers or pants though, so think that's the way to go (fingers crossed emoticon)

[sphil]

I honestly think it won't be long - I bet as soon as she's done it once, she'll get the idea. But I sympathise - we've had this with DS2 for months - sits willingly but produces nothing. He's not as keen on the toilet as your DD though and has nothing like as much language.

Ironically, since he's broken his leg he's much more aware of being wet - because he's sitting in it all the time I suppose. He's constantly asking us to 'change nappy'.

[dsrplus8]

hows the training going? have you cracked it yet?

[lingle]

My DS2 also sits on the toilet but does nothing. He enjoys going through the routine and has special "toilet toys"!

Is the consensus just to keep them sitting on the loo?

[Debs75goldrings]

Have you tried ice pops to get liquid down her?

DS is 10 next Feb and we are only just getting somewhere with training so you are very brave and focused to try it now.
School had started and he was staying dry at school and signing for toilet. Broke his leg 5 weeks ago so they had to stop putting him on toilet. He had cottoned on tho as he is often popping off for a wee at home and does the signing.

I think every child is different and if you catch them at the right age they are easier they will get dry.

Good luck

[silverfrog]

well....

she continues to have pelvic floor muscles to die for

we have twice managed to catch a wee on the loo - the first time we had her sat there for hours (literally), reading to her, etc and plying her with drink.

She cracked at about 4pm (this is from 8.30 in the morning...)

And then today, we ahd her running about the hallway (easy clean floor, and quick access to the loo) and she finally wee'd at 4.30pm (again, going form about 8am). I think she might be close to getting it - today we were plying her with drink again (non acoholic, honest ) and just before she wee'd, she asked for some a few times in succession (having been refusing to drink for an hour or so as she was obv desperate for a wee) - maybe she knew she needed to go, but hasn't quite worked out the right muscles for "wee at will" (she's clearly worked out how to hold!)

If that is the case, the only thing we can do is plough on and hope she works it out soon...

Still, she is doing well, and has yet to have an accident outside the house due to her steely pelvic floor

how is your ds doing, sphil? I've read a couple of your messages where he sounds as though he's settled well into being immobile - lots of ordering all of you around, etc (dd1 does this anyway - she'd be a right tyrant if she was ever immobilised!)