Need some help - 3 year old boy

[NannyNanny]

I posted in another section but didn't get many replies. I am hoping someone on here will be able to help. I have a (sort of) friend who has a 3 year old DS, who I sometimes help with and look after. I am quite concerned about him, as he does not seem to be developing 'in the right way'.
I know all children develop differently but something does not seem quite right.
He is very hyperactive, he runs and runs and runs about all the time, unless the T.V is on and then he stares at that like a zombie. He can say roughly 15 words, but only when pointed to in a book, e.g, Cat, dog, shoe. He will never use these words though, for instance if he wanted his shoes he wouldn't say shoes. When you give him a toy he shakes it about everywhere or he chews things. For instance, I gave him a box of crayons the other day and all he did was chew the cardboard box. The only time he will 'play' is if you give him toy cars, and then he just lines them up in formation. He doesn't know anyones name and doesn't seem bothered about who he is with, almost like he can't distinguish between people.
In my experience this isn't 'normal' behaviour. Can someone please help.

P.s. I am not trying to be judgemental of this boy. I just want to know if there is a problem and what can help him.

Thanks in advance

[NannyNanny]

Bumping for myself. I know it's getting late now, but is there anyone there?

[macwoozy]

Hazard a guess but I would say his mum would be already looking into this.

[NannyNanny]

No. She doesn't seem concerned at all.

[TinySocks]

My goodness, is the boy's mother from another planet? How can she not be concerned? I agree with you, doesn't sound right.

But there is nothing you can do, she needs to get her act together and get help.
Is your friendship strong enough, do you think you could hint something to her?

[macwoozy]

Is this little boy in pre-school/nursery? I would imagine that they would pick up on any unusual behaviour, and then get the ball rolling with regards to senco, psychologist etc.(That's what happened in my ds's case)

The mum might not feel comfortable to talk about her son just yet, it's very early days for her.

[r3dh3d]

Yes, it sounds like a problem. However, there isn't all that much you can do.

Mums in this position fall into two sets of behaviour: denial and fighting loon. Both perfectly natural behaviour. I'm a type II. She's a type I.

Generally (as MacW says) nurseries are v useful for this as they are trained to pick this stuff up and can authoritatively press for - and arrange - proper assessment. Is he not in nursery at all? In that case the most fruitful thing you can do is probably to persuade her (via some playdates if necc) that his socialisation is a bit behind and that he would benefit from a nursery environment if only 1 day a week.

This is one of the drawbacks of Nannying, I think - early intervention is key, but you're not in a position to plug into that system, especially if mum hasn't got her head out of the sand yet.

[NannyNanny]

I don't think she is in denial. She acts as if she doesn't care and spends the least amount of time possible with her son. He goes to nursery five days a week from 8-5. The nursery have advised the mum to take him to a speech therapist. She said she will and then doesn't bother.
I want to cut ties with her but she is (kind of) family. I also don't want to cut ties because the I care a lot for the little boy. I don't really want to get involved on here about who is responsible etc. A little bit of advice about how I could help the boy would be great.

[cory]

There are strong suggestions here that he might be on the autistic spectrum. He needs professional help by the sounds of it. And a statement for when he starts school.

[NannyNanny]

Another thing I wondered is that maybe he doesn't have special needs. Are there any other reasons why children would act like this?

[amber32002]

OK, things to help in the meantime...

No eye contact.
No unexpected touching him as it might 'hurt'(many of us are very, very sensitive to touch)
Try to find a way to explain what will happen next, even if it's using pictures rather than words
Let him line things up if he wants. If it is an autistic spectrum thing, we love doing this.
Try to keep noise levels down as our hearing is often very sensitive
Try to keep lighting to be non-flickering lights. Fluorescent ones are pretty bad at being flickery.
He might enjoy things that spin, or anything he can do over and over again.

So difficult when the parent doesn't seem to want to know, it really is.

[NannyNanny]

Thank you amber. He definitely doesn't like to be tickled or anything like that. Although he does give you hugs somewhat spontaneously and licks your face???
I think I will mention something to the mum, but I don't know how to go about it. I don't want to come across as a know it all or be interfering. I am just worried that if there is a problem is will go unspotted and he will really struggle when he gets to school age

[r3dh3d]

Your problem is that it does sound like ASD, but on the other hand virtually all things kids with ASD do, NT kids do too at some point. It's a question of extent and appropriateness really and that's so subjective that it's impossible to say over the internet - oh this bit is ASD behaviour but that bit isn't. Which is why we are all being a bit cagey and saying get him assessed. As we always do.

If you want to read up on ASD (not just for this little chap but generally useful for work I should think) the NAS has a website and on that they have a recommended books list. And of course a lot of the stuff you can do with them is tackling the symptoms, eg trying to introduce the concept of turn-taking, trying to get a bit more interaction by mirroring their behaviour, etc. so it's not as if you need an accurate diagnosis to try to do something helpful - DD1 only just added ASD to her list of diagnoses but they've been treating it in the same way as ASD for years.

But - big, big but - there is no substitute for diagnosis. If this is what it looks like, he is going to have major educational hurdles and needs the formal bits of paper and all the therapists on board. And that means that mum has to at least give permission for appointments even if she asks someone else to take him to them.

Btw - is he a "runner"? What happens if you open the door?

[kettlechip]

he is very lucky that he has you to look out for him. Maybe keep note of your concerns for now, and if his mum ever does mention anything, you'll be able to support and encourage her to seek some advice.
If he only has 15 words at 3, some SALT sounds like it's definitely necessary though. Could anyone else take him?

[NannyNanny]

Yes, he is a runner. He will run away as soon as he gets the chance. There are no hurdles where he is concerned. It is a complete problem because it is hard to take him anywhere without him running away. He doesn't stop running either, just keeps going and going. When I took him out last week I used reigns, much to his annoyance . Out of curiosity, why did you ask r3dh3d?
Thank you so much for your help everybody. I know he needs to see a specialist but didn't think I should suggest anything until I got some other peoples opinion about his development. Thanks again. Now for the hard part of bringing it up in conversation.

[amber32002]

I suspect because so many lads with an ASD are 'runners' with absolutely no sense of danger at all.

[Tiggiwinkle]

Quite true about them being runners amber-I have 5 DSs, two diagnosed with AS, the rest not diagnosed but almost certainly also AS. All have just run and run (and escaped from nurseries etc!).
Nanny-the little boy you are concerned about certainly sounds as if he needs an assessment as he has many ASD traits. Good luck in raising the issue with his mum.

[r3dh3d]

I asked because you said he runs about all the time - I know a couple of kids with ASD who do this indoors and they are both runners. It is compulsive, really not under their control: if they see an opening they have to make a break for it. There are immediate issues about his safety - not just the running thing but also does he climb and have no fear of heights? Does he obsess about running water and flood the bathroom? Etc. etc. If you've got a child with these sorts of behaviours you have to adapt your life (and especially your house) to keep them safe: he's getting to the age now where this is going to be an issue: if he chews "everything" a whole lot more stuff is just starting to get within his reach. All our internal doors lock and the handles are a couple of foot higher than normal. And we don't have a single table lamp or standard lamp in the house.

If mum hasn't got with the program yet... well, you get my drift.

BTW, if you search there was a recent thread here about reins for older kids.

[NannyNanny]

Thanks again. All information is taken with great thanks.

[nikos]

I'd forgotten ds used to be obsessed with turning on taps-flooded our bathroom too. We just thought he was a lively boy at the time.

[cyberseraphim]

What does the mother say ? Is she genuinely not worried herself or has she been told by others that 'they're all different, he'll develop in his own time' etc etc ? She might not be to blame as often professionals discourage consideration of ASD until a DX fits their schedule.

[NannyNanny]

I have issues with the mother. I am actually disgusted by her to be honest. Whenever the child is not a nursery, then he is in his room watching his t.v by himself. He eats all of his meals in there by himself as well. I sometimes wonder would she notice if he sprouted another head. I am not blaming her for his behaviour but I am very very annoyed with her.

[Flowertots]

Nanny,
Difficult situation. My daughter has a sensory processing disorder and I have to admit that I put my head in the sand for a year before admitting something was wrong, just kept thinking she'll grow out of it. Anyway she has come leaps and bounds since I took my head out of the sand (albeit kicking and screaming).
Is it maybe worth keeping a diary of his traits and then printing off some details and symptoms of the conditions being mentioned from official internet sites so the mum can clearly see that they tally up-that way she can't accuse you of just trying to cause trouble. Also maybe print off details of organisations that can help or get some leaflets so she doesn't feel so overwhelmed. It might help her accept the problem.
I started my dd on a high dose of Omega 3 oils and it's worked wonders on her concentration and we've trained ourselves to know what she's hypersensitive to and her other little quirks.

[drowninginlaundry]

nurseries won't necessarily pick up on stuff like this
nurseries with lots of young, poorly trained staff with high staff turnover can just be like baby-parks
Few understand enough about SN and ASD to pick up on things like lining up cars, and at age 3 lack of language can be brushed aside as 'all children are different'.
DS1 was 3 when we told his nursery that he had received a diagnosis and we'd take him out to start a home programme, The nursery was gobsmacked, they had 'no idea'. To them he was just 'a bit shy and liked playing with trains' - to everyone else, he had no language and no play skills and ticked all the necessary boxes for ASD

What an awfully difficult situation. Unless the mum gets the ball rolling I have no idea what you could do. Awful to think that this little boy might not receive any intervention until he starts reception.

[Widemouthfrog]

Drowning.
I echo what you say from personal experience. My DS was in reception before anyone said ASD to me. Nursery did in fact say he was just shy. He was my first child, and I knew no different. Within 9 months of starting school he had an autism diagnosis and a statement for 1:1. When his reception teacher told his nursery this they were flabbergasted.

My biggest regret is that intervention didn't start earlier. I was in denial because no one else was telling me there was a problem. He started school and it was like someone hit me with a sledgehammer - I couldn't believe that I hadn't seen it before. It was the worst year of his, and my life. The good news is that 12 months on he is doing fabulously well.

Nanny, I don't know how you do it, but this boys mum needs to be encouraged to recognise what is happening, though the fact that she is not taking on board the suggestion to see a speech therapist does not bode well. Good luck

[RaggedRobin]

it came as a complete shock to me when a salt made her list of observations of my ds - i had always just assumed that he was developing at his own rate. i teach deaf children so you would think that i would have been more aware of his language development, but it really did come as a shock.

i think what helped me to realise that there might be a problem was to see how my son compared to other children with language delay/asd.

perhaps that is a route you could go down with this boy's mum? perhaps say that you came across some information and you were startled by how similar it sounded to her ds? ask her to take a look and see what she thinks?

also, i was surprised by my son's initial referral to a salt, and thought that my hv was being a bit over-zealous, and the only reason i took it up was because someone said they were harder to get when your child is older. so perhaps you could use this to get the mum more interested in taking up the salt appointment. if she thinks appointments are hard to come by, she might be more keen to take them up when they are offered iyswim.

as for tv - i'm ashamed to say that because my ds was so fanatical about watching the tv, we allowed him to watch far, far too much. only when we realised that his language was delayed did we begin to restrict the amount that he was watching and to think very carefully about the communication strategies we were using with him. hopefully, this mum will find ways of helping her ds once she comes to accept that there may be a problem.

good luck with this, you are doing the right thing by bringing it up i think.