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AIBU to be disappointed with ds's SALT group

(21 Posts)
emkana Tue 30-Sep-08 22:11:18

Ds goes once a week to a SALT group, together with between 3 and 5 other little boys. There is a SALT but she is often not there. When she is there she often does one to one with individual children, but has never done this with ds, no idea why not! Today ds was the only child there, all other boys were ill or absent for other reasons. The perfect time then for the SALT to concentrate on ds, you'd think. But instead she disappeared into the office for the whole session. DS ended up playing with the medical student who was there to observe and the LSW from a special school who was also there to observe. Nice, but not really the point I think.

I am seriously considering going to see a private SALT after all.

emkana Tue 30-Sep-08 22:33:16


moondog Tue 30-Sep-08 22:35:01

If she isn't there,then who takes the group?
Today, did you not ask her why she was going?
If she was gone, who was in charge.

I think a lot of SALT is a waste of time tbh with you (not saying the case here,but I have come to this conclusion)

emkana Tue 30-Sep-08 22:35:49

The group is held at a SN early years centre, and if SALT doesn't do it then one of the early years practitioners takes over.

moondog Tue 30-Sep-08 22:36:43

What exactly is an 'early years practitioner'?
Who took it today?

tortoiseshell Tue 30-Sep-08 22:36:43

That sounds really rubbish. I would be really annoyed.
How is your ds' speech coming along?

emkana Tue 30-Sep-08 22:38:02

So moondog, ds has currently about 15 to 20 "words", some of them are one sound only )so for example he calls his sister Natasha "ar") He's starting to put two words together. He points and understands reasonably well. He goes to this SALT group and will get Portage in a couple of weeks. Has glue ear, will get grommets soon.
So my question to you is:

Should I spend money on a private SALT yey or ney?

emkana Tue 30-Sep-08 22:39:40

Today there was a medical student there, plus an LSW from the special school, plus an Early Years woman. They played with ds, but without a plan or structure.

No idea what an Early Years Practitioner is, I just know that that's what they call themselves.

moondog Tue 30-Sep-08 22:40:10

It's so hard to say.
Depends on him, the salt,her many variables.
Also factor in the fact that communication is about interacting with people not sitting having 1:1.
How about doing both for a bit?

Nothing to stop you doing that. smile

moondog Tue 30-Sep-08 22:41:04

Is there no written info on goals/aims of group that they have passed onto yuo?
You can ask to see his file you know.

emkana Tue 30-Sep-08 22:43:29

no written goals/info no

They are very clear in their intention to mainly let the session be about free play, and that's all it is basically, apart from the endless circle time at the beginning, where turn-taking is practised, and they things like blowing bubbles, trying to get the children to ask for things etc

I will see about his file I think.

moondog Tue 30-Sep-08 22:49:35

I'm not convinced about that sort of stuff any more although is standard SALT protocol.

My training in ABA has really made me undertake a radical change of opinion re what is best for children with GDD.

I'm into Direct Instruction which has an impeccable evidence base.

It's the topic of my MSc in fact. You might like to read a bit more about it?

'Direct instruction is a general term for the explicit teaching of a skill-set using lectures or demonstrations of the material, rather than exploratory models such as inquiry-based learning.

This form of instruction is often contrasted with discovery learning (Tuovinen, & Sweller,1999). While many support discovery learning, because they feel students learn better if they "learn by doing," there is little empirical evidence to support this claim, quite the contrary in fact (Tuovinen and Sweller, 1999). Kirschner, Sweller, and Clark (2006) suggest that fifty years of empirical data does not support those using these unguided methods of instruction.'

emkana Tue 30-Sep-08 22:55:06

That's very interesting moondog. How would you put that into practice with very young children?

tortoiseshell, don't mean to ignore you, thanks for posting! As I said below ds's speech is gradually coming along, but still aeons away from "normal"

moondog Tue 30-Sep-08 22:59:15

Ah well, this is what I am thinking about!
DI has been hugely successful with failing children (ie socio-economic aspects)and i am thinking about using it with kids with SN which hasn't been thoguht about so much.

It is something that can't really be explained in an MN post (!) but it is worth following up and thinking over. Your ds is young and obviously free play is v v important but in a few years, it might be woirth pursuing. An ABA therapist could get you on track.

Did you read the bit about Project Followthrough?? It is an astounding scandal.

I'm doing a 15 min. presentation on my mSc topic (online reading programme based on DI) tomorrow to my entire salt dept. I can send it to you if yuo like.

emkana Tue 30-Sep-08 23:03:36

Yes I can appreciate that it would be a bit too much for a MN post! grin

Yes would be very interested to read that, my email is emkana at gmx dot net

Fascinating to read about that project, why on earth was it kept quiet like that?

Good luck with your presentation tomorrow, and thanks for being on hand (again) to answer my endless questions!

moondog Tue 30-Sep-08 23:05:28

Will send.
Kept quiet because powerful forces at work in education. Teachers and therapists always bray about it being an 'art' (ie nonoe can pin them down if kids learn bugger all)

Have dug out the killer heels and power suit.

TotalChaos Wed 01-Oct-08 07:58:19

Em - when DS had a speech group this summer there were usually 3 SALT there. One carefully taking notes upon what each kid could/couldn't do in the group exercises. So sounds like your SALT group is being done rather on the cheap.

IIRC you were expecting to do a Hanen course? Is that due to start soon? If so I would be inclined to hang fire on the private SALT, as the Hanen course should be a mine of useful practical tips to bring him onto the next level. I found the Hanen course by far the best thing NHS SALT has offered DS so far. Both SALT were very skilled and non-patronising.

tortoiseshell Wed 01-Oct-08 08:49:28

Glad it's coming along emkana. Ds2's speech is still WAY below where it should be - but is gradually progressing. (He has quite a few words now, and is only just putting 2 words together). I did wonder if he needed some SALT, but he seems ok I 'think'.

Sounds like moondog is giving you good advice, but hope his SALT provision improves for you both!

moondog Wed 01-Oct-08 19:22:32

Elklan ios big news in salt depts. at present although it focuses on training teachers and assistants (most of whom haven't a clue-through no fault of theri own-about supporting children with comm. diffs.)

TotalChaos Thu 02-Oct-08 12:33:53

interesting links. Do you feel Elkan differs greatly from Hanen then?

Tclanger Thu 02-Oct-08 15:44:56

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

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