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Behavioural issues with 4 yr old LONG but PLEASE help :(

(32 Posts)
Ree24 Thu 04-Sep-08 22:33:31

Hi guys i am new here, i have been told to post this in SN section. I feel if i don't air i am going to burst with tears. I am lost and i don't know what to do.
I broke up with my childrens father, a year ago and it seems to have taken an effect on my eldest who is 4, Joshua. His father was a bully, who got very aggressive at times. He smashed things, slammed doors, bruised joshua, used to let his older boys "ban" josh from certain rooms when they were over I tried to stop them, i aired my views and always made sure my baby was loved but he wanted to play with the boys, he didnt understand why he wasn't allowed i did find it hard to stand up to my then partner, as he was a bully to me too. Over the years my son has expressed the unwillingness to share with his sister, pushing her away etc and he does with other children too. I have tried to curb this, he has had toys taken away, had the naughty step, mat, room etc to no avail. My son has now taken to saying no and screaming at me, and when i tel him to apologise he laughs at me, i can't seem to discipline him and he doesn't listen to me. He won't let his sister play with any of her own toys, he gets so angry if she distrups a specific order his toys are in. He wont let her in their room alone as he hides his toys in there, it seems.
The other thing with my son is the way he tries to hurt people and animals. I obviously THINK i have curbed the animal one but i am struggling with the people one. He spits in my cousins bf's face, and gets so hyper active he wont listen to me controlling him! It isn't down to food colouring or too many sweets, i have monitored this.
I have been told today that josh pushed a little girl over and she got very upset, and he pushed two others over too. He has done it everyday this week and did it when he was at nursery too. My friends little boy is in his class, and says nobody really plays with josh, as he pushes them. A little girl called holly upsets josh by saying she doesnt like him and apparantly punches him in the head, though a teacher has not told me such things? i am assuming they would???
I dont know what to do. I tried talking to Health visitor and she just says its normal behaviour, and sent a person over to see him and for the measely hour they were here, he was as good as gold.
I am at a loss. I am thinking the doctor might be able to help me.
The other thing with josh is the rages he gets into. He gets so angry he shakes and goes red and throws things and smashes things I think the way his father was has effected him and i dont know what to do to help my little boy. i am litrely in tears because i feel like such a bad mum. I have made an appointment for next thursday at 2:20pm which means he will have to come out of school early for it as it's importan. I hope they understand.
Joshua's half brother was diagnosed with aspergers syndrome two years ago.
Added onto this is his sensitive hearing, he screams when buses and lorries and trains come by if they are too close to him, and he covers his ears.

Nat1H Thu 04-Sep-08 22:56:24

I am afraid I don't know, but didn't want your thread to go unanswered. Just thinking on the spot -could Relate, or another marriage guidance service possibly provide you with some help? Surely, they have come across this before

I think maybe your son is acting out what he has seen in the past. Does he see his father at all? (I presume not).

Hope you get it sorted soon - try not to get upset or stressed over it (VERY difficult, I know).

luckylady74 Thu 04-Sep-08 23:08:26

Sorry you are going through such a difficult time.
The sensitivity to noise and obsessive ordering of toys could point to sn, as does a family link. Have you tried looking at the national autistic society website? If you are still concerned after looking at their check lists then write down all your concerns and take them to your GP. Ask your GP to refer you to a paedriatrician who can assess him for asd.
He can't help but have been affected by your ex's apalling behaviour and though pushing is normal behaviour your hv shouldn't have been so dismissive sad
You are clearly a very caring, concerned and loving mother. I hope things get better.

magso Thu 04-Sep-08 23:10:37

Welcome Ree! You sound very worried.
Who have you got the appointment with next week - is it the gp or the paediatrician?
I am just a mum so have no expertise. My son was rather like yours at 3-4 ( actually still is!!)hyperactive, impulsive, no awareness of danger, unable to listen, over sensative to noise, pushed children away. It was a very difficult time. People ( family, partner, gp) dismissed my worries or said I needed to be stricter, talk to him more, feed him differently, not let him watch tv (he had a good diet, clear rules and couldn't sit for tv anyway!) and 'those' looks from otherparents!-- you probably get similar. At 3-4 it is hard to know if it is just being a boy with a 'sensative temperament'. However with the FH of aspergers and your concerns (and fears)you could go to the gp and request a referrral to a developmental paediatrician.
Other wiser folk will be on later I am sure.

Ree24 Thu 04-Sep-08 23:11:18

Thankyou so much for your replies and thankyou luckylady74 for the kind words/compliments xxxx

Nat1H no he doesn't see his dad. He hasn't seen him since last november.

Ree24 Thu 04-Sep-08 23:14:04

Hi Magso the appointment is with the family dr.
Thanks for your help too i have written down developmenatl paediatrician so i know what to ask the dr for! wink

magso Thu 04-Sep-08 23:16:32

( sorry cross posted Nat and lucky!! hadnt seen you posts!))

misscutandstick Fri 05-Sep-08 07:42:24

Hi, and welcome REE smile

firstly {{{HUGS}}} you have been through so much, but you are not on your own - there is help out there, and the girls on here are lovely! They will point you in the right direction, give you a shoulder, and an ear (they'd give you an arm and a leg if you asked for it!)

I think you would probably get some help from a girl called AMBER - this sounds right up her street. Im sure she'll be along, at some time today (i know she works, so it will probably be later), she has some brill advice and explanations in this area, and you will see that you are doing great and how to help your son cope better.

gonna stop rambling, {{{HUGS}}} im sure there will be others on soon.


flyingmum Fri 05-Sep-08 09:36:09

you sound like a wonderful mummy who has had a lot of crap to put up with.

Has your son just started school by any chance? They do tend to go through a funny five minutes when they do and boys quite often get a testosterone surge at this age too.

your son has watched you being pushed around by this man and so he is emulating the behaviour but getting angry when he sees you standing up to him and apparantly laying down the rules.

I think you need to go down a very structured route with him. When he is calm talk about behaviour and what is acceptable and unacceptable. Pick only 3 main things that are unacceptable (the biggest) and let the others ride for a bit (little things like not clearing up a dish after breakfast type stuff - ignore all of that). Give him clear guidelines of what will happen to him if he does the three big things 1. A Warning. 2. Naughty spot/chair/timeout - whatever you want to call it. If the behaviour is repeated then tell him he won't get whatever (to watch his fav prog - something immediate that he can relate to). Then for good behviour do something visual - so every time he does something good he gets a sticker on a chart on the fridge or a ball into a jar - something he can identify with. So many of them - then at the end of the week he gets to buy something small that he wants. Sticker charts do work for some children. I have to say time out never worked for my eldest (lots of SEN)

Don't be afraid of him. He will sense this and it will give him the power. You are the master in YOUR home and what you say GOES WHATEVER. Be fair but very very firm and consistent - above all follow through what you say you are going to do. AND praise ANYTHING you can. phrases such as 'thank you for asking so nicely' 'Thank you for helping turn the tV on' just make it automatic. (although it does get embarrasing when your child says 'thank you for asking for that so nicely mummy blush)

I would also say that if he does something at school that is major then there is a consequence at home (not watching the Simpsons in my eldest son's case).

Good luck. Hope some of this helps.

Ree24 Fri 05-Sep-08 11:07:25

grin awww thanks so much again for the messages and words of encouragement. I am really just confused at the moment, and hate the fact i have to wait a whole week (well just under) to see the dr i specifically requested as all the others at my surgery do not give us the time needed, and this is an important issue i wish to discuss and refuse t o be rushed i am going to tell my dr to refer us to a paediatrician i pray to god he does as i want my little man assessed so he can get all the help he so rightly deserves and i can learn how to be with him and not make it worse

Tclanger Fri 05-Sep-08 11:38:25

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BriocheDoree Fri 05-Sep-08 12:52:52

Hello Ree, sounds like you are having a tough time. Any time you want to sound off you'll discover the girls on here are lovely and even though our kids are all different we all know how frustrating it is when you can't seem to be able to help them. I hope that your doctor is able to help (take time to think exactly what you want to say, even write it down, although I'm sure someone has already said that) and that some of the behavioural strategies help your wee man as it sounds like he's already been through quite a lot already.
I have a daughter with language problems, by the way, who is also not very good at sharing, and she also went through a phase of pushing (though not at school, thankfully). Every time she pushed we had an immediate response, TV turned off, leave the park, whatever was appropriate then and there and this has helped (a bit) as has more stability at home as we had just moved house when this all kicked off.

amber32002 Fri 05-Sep-08 13:12:35

I'm not an expert in child behaviour, but I do have Asperger syndrome and a lot of what you write about your son could be a sign of autism:

Half brother has Asperger syndrome.
Doesn’t know how to share.
He pushes people.
He seems deaf when you tell him off or
He laughs inappropriately when told off
He lines his toys up
He gets angry when someone touches them
He doesn’t understand that people feel pain
His behaviour is stopping friendships
He gest wildly angry and can’t get out of it again
He can’t cope with engine noise

I think it's definitely worth re-asking for a proper assessment. Yes, he's going to be pretty angry about his dad, but that won't explain the noise sensitivity, and the seeming deaf/laughing unexpectedly is very typical of autistic spectrum reactions in young children.

You are absolutely not a bad mum. You did all you could to protect him when in that relationship, and you're doing all you can for him right now, but you won't know the right things to do until you get a proper answer out of people.

It might help to assume that he is on the autistic spectrum and learn the ways that you can spot how to help him/divert him. Hard work, but worth it if it helps a bit. Start with the National Autistic Society webpages and keep talking with everyone here - really lovely people. Very glad to answer more if I can, but don't want to bombard you with info straight away?

Ree24 Fri 05-Sep-08 18:02:26

Also, when he is asked to do smething, he seems in another world and doesnt respond until about 5 times of getting louder and louder trying to get him to listen?? is that normal? he had his hearing tested about 3yrs ago it was fine then and it is very sensitive, so why doesnt he hear me or others??

Ree24 Fri 05-Sep-08 18:04:47

That is fantastic help Amber, thankyou very much that list is all making me think that he is possibly on the spectrum but i am a ware i am going to have a fight on my hands with the drs to get him diagnosed, oh god hmm

Tclanger Fri 05-Sep-08 18:10:49

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Ree24 Fri 05-Sep-08 18:25:16

So what you are saying is his brain knows there is sound but cannot differenciate which sound is which?

magso Fri 05-Sep-08 18:48:14

Hi Ree. It is hard waiting for appointments but I suppose it gives you a chance to research your concerns and present the gp with a clear reasoned request!
I struggled with ds behaviour - particularly when he started school, (it turns out he has ASD as well as the LD I already knew about) but I found ordinary parenting courses of limited help. I did a course called a WebsterStratten aimed at carers of traumatised and sn children, and found that helpful.-It gave me a rigid structure to build on. I have to pick and choose as some things work better than others with my less able child. If you like guide books (as I do) and want something not specific to ASD its called 'The incredible years' by Webster Stratton and it does enphasis the positive.
Hope your gp can help.

amber32002 Sat 06-Sep-08 11:47:45

Ree, yes (re the sound thing), sort of. We're totally single-minded because our brains can only handle one incoming thing at a time. When they do, that's all the wiring used up. Think of it like a telephone line. If someone's already on it, all you'll get is an engaged tone when you ring them. So it is with us. If we're concentrating on something, we need to be able to switch to what you're saying. It drives my family to distraction that they'll say something and two minutes later I'll reply to it - I sort of hear it but it goes into a 'your call is waiting - please hold the line' bit of my brain until I have enough brainpower left to handle it. smile

Shouting won't make any difference really, other than it frightens the proverbial whatsits out of a lot of us. Use his name, wait patiently, use his name again. If that doesn't work, try a different incoming 'sense' - e.g. use touch or wave at him from in front of his eyes, rather than keep using the hearing 'channel'. See if that helps.

mumslife Sat 06-Sep-08 21:25:53

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Ree24 Sun 07-Sep-08 13:06:10

The childre have no contact with their father, i dont even knw where he lives He was addicted to drugs though and after 15yrs smoking it , i just assumed it was the drugs effects on him. He was borderline skitzofreniac (Sorry spelling) i swear because he would just suddenly have outbursts and was hard to control. I used to try and find places to go when he had no drugs, so me and the children were not at the end of the stick when he was angry x

amber32002 Sun 07-Sep-08 18:45:10

Most people on the autistic spectrum are peaceful, law abiding people. I'm not any sort of medical person, but I do know that most adults on the autistic spectrum have never been diagnosed, and if they didn't cope well with life, some were diagnosed with something quite wrong like schizophrenia, as the docs had no idea what Asperger syndrome was. Then they were put on medicines that couldn't work (as they didn't have that mental illness) and these often mucked around with their minds so much that they may have ended up doing some pretty bad things or using other drugs to 'cope'.

There again, some people (whether ASD or not) just are dangerously insane, and some are just evil.

Can't tell what the situation was here, but staying safe is important no matter which of those three it was. You did the right thing.

Ree24 Sun 07-Sep-08 21:37:27

Thankyou, it means a lot to hear that

mumslife Mon 08-Sep-08 19:30:43

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Ree24 Thu 11-Sep-08 11:46:36

So perhaps his father had it??

Guys my little boy has the drs today..thisn is the first step but i am getting the feeling its gonna be a waste of!!!!

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