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Jimjams do you fancy putting a comment on this article? (WARNING MMR related).

(23 Posts)
Pixel Tue 12-Aug-08 18:30:34

The author of this comes across as such a smug git that I've been trying to compose a suitable put-down but haven't done very well so far. The title alone makes my blood boil! Dh and I made a joint decision re: ds and the MMR and I'm sure that's the case with most parentsangry.

jimjamshaslefttheyurt Tue 12-Aug-08 18:42:00

the mail never prints my comments! they're usually surprisingly good re the mmr

BriocheDoree Tue 12-Aug-08 18:52:25

What an awful article. I mean, whatever your viewpoint is on MMR, how dare he suggest it as if it's only mothers, and as if people have no brain. I always thought that was the worst thing with the whole MMR scare, the fact that the govt treated people as if they were idiots and refused to look into it properly!

sphil Tue 12-Aug-08 19:42:21

Bloody hell - I used to know this man. Way back, at university - he adapted Candide for the stage and I stage managed it. Who'd have thought he'd turn into such an arse.

I wonder whether a joint reply - or letter - or article - might be a more effective riposte. Someone could write it (not sure who wink) and we could all sign it - get as many signatures as possible.

How DARE he suggest that we made the decision not to vaccinate while 'sitting round sipping coffee' ! Chance would be a bloody fine thing.

jimjamshaslefttheyurt Tue 12-Aug-08 19:55:32

Well to answer his questions.

Yes I have read the original Wakefield paper- it's on the shelf behind me.
Yes I have read all the papers supposedly showing that MMR is safe. None of them address the actual Wakefield hypothesis that MMR has triggered autism in a small subgroup. So the incidence of autism in a population before and after the introduction of MMR is irrelevant.

And the UK now uses Jeryl Lyn. It used to use urabe- and in fact that particular brand of MMR has been associated with 'worse' cases of MMR regression. There was a bran effect. The strain that used urabe was removed because it caused aspetic meningitis.

I am interested how he knows that Wakefield is wrong without reading anything at all. That seems a bit stupid to me.

edam Tue 12-Aug-08 20:10:15

Patronising, sexist git. IMO.

jimjamshaslefttheyurt Tue 12-Aug-08 20:28:19

PMSL @ a bran effect. A brand effect I mean.

Was he at your college sphil? You could poke his eyes out at a reunion.

Pixel Tue 12-Aug-08 20:32:21

See Jimjams, you remember this stuff. I read all the info and I know there are good arguments for the decisions Dh and I made, but if someone asks me about it my mind goes blank. When ds last saw the school Doctor we were discussing his bowel problems and I made a flippant remark about it being a shame Dr Wakefield had got hounded out of the country. The doctor put on her patronising face and said "but he was only trying to market his own vaccines, did you know that?". I knew it wasn't true but just couldn't think of what to say. I was cross with myself all the way home!

jimjamshaslefttheyurt Tue 12-Aug-08 20:35:44

oh that vaccine thing is so annoying. The patent application makes it clear that the vaccines were being developed as a treatment for autistic enterocolitis.

It's easy now though - all you have to say to anything is 'have you read the evidence from the GMC hearings? Unfortunately it was decided not to allow a transcript to be made public at this time, but you can read a summary at the Cry Shame website.'

The evidence coming out of there should worry the average GP tbh.

jimjamshaslefttheyurt Tue 12-Aug-08 20:36:48

BTW I never argue face to face with doctors (no point). I tell them I'll write them a letter, or I just say very little and escape asap.

Most have been fine tbh.

sphil Tue 12-Aug-08 22:59:47

Do you know JJ, I took 'bran effect' seriously. Just thought it was some digestion related thing I didn't know about blush.

No, JM wasn't at my college - it was an OUDs production, so intercollegiate. Can't remember where he was. Worcester? Not sure I'd even recognise him now - which is a shame for the poking the eyes out plan.

Is no-one up for my mass response idea then?

jimjamshaslefttheyurt Tue 12-Aug-08 23:02:56

I would be, but can;t volunteer to write anything as have no time for the next few days (am working). Can rewrite/add to a letter someone else drafts though.

sphil Tue 12-Aug-08 23:12:35

I don't have the scientific/research knowledge to back up my arguments, only anecdotal stuff. But there must be someone else - or we could do a joint effort?

Seuss Wed 13-Aug-08 00:26:33

I didn't comment because apparently my 'stupidity is off the scale'. Would be happpy to sign any mass response though!

jimjamshaslefttheyurt Wed 13-Aug-08 11:24:36

well I've commented but I doubt it'll be published.

Seuss Wed 13-Aug-08 11:28:10

Well done! It needed a comment but I'm not very good at that kind of thing - can never remember the arguments when necessary.

Pixel Wed 13-Aug-08 15:06:42

Well done smile. Sorry I wasn't ignoring you after starting the thread last night. I had to dash out to the shops after dh got home (couldn't face taking ds) and when I got back my laptop decided to keep shutting down by itself.
I've been thinking as I can't manage a clever, well-informed comment, maybe I should just go with my first thought and put 'smug git' and leave it at that. Do you think they will publish that? grin.

Tclanger Wed 13-Aug-08 17:37:35

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

lottiejenkins Wed 13-Aug-08 21:41:07

My ds has not had the MMR for the simple reason that he had unexplained fits when he was three weeks old, our late and much missed gp couldnt guarantee that the fits wouldnt return if ds had the jabs so we said no, he told us we had in his mind made the right decision. I stand by that decision to this day and have posted as such on the mails online site.

Seuss Wed 13-Aug-08 22:19:12

Ds 2 and dd haven't had their MMR (and won't be for well thought out reasons) but I'm getting reminders for their pre-school jabs. Is this the MMR booster or a booster for other stuff? (I was going to ring the dr but thought someone might be able to save me going through the explanations again!)

Joe90 Wed 13-Aug-08 23:21:49

It will include boosters for the other stuff but not sure on MMR, it used to include MMR so do check, but I know things have changed and with some vaccines the baby jabs are now thought adequate (polio?)I can't face looking at the article mentioned above but can suggest where people might find useful facts. Our first son became autistic at 15 months, over the course of a weekend, interestingly before he had the MMR, however he had it 4 months later - 1993, so when the partic bad strain was used. His autism coincided with sudden food refusal then bingeing on the foods that contain loads of opiate inducing gluten, we were to realise later. We found out he was autistic at 3, at 4 1/2 we had moved to Oxon and saw John Richer who told us to do the GF CF diet, which changed him in a month from someone the Ed psy was reccomending special school to a child who was to go to mainstream with an LSA. The mechanism that causes the gluten intolerance (leaky gut) and the build up with opiates in the brain is linked probs from measles virus, I have not kept up with the science but know this is what Paul Shattock at Sunderland is studying and he got an MBE! We refused boosters and all MMRs for the other 2 boys, we recently moved and I have put on surgery registration form about the boys not having had MMR. In March I signed consent for the teenage booster for the (now aspie) son, stating would not allow MMR, was not questioned on that. Dreading a barrage of letters from the NHS but interestingly the surgery that has had our dets for a month have not phoned me up or anything. I do not see the rationale behind single measles vaccines at present, perhaps I am just too stressed by other stuff to go into it, may make sense if the prob with the MMR was merely fronm a bad batch. Am happy to add name to petition or copy and send a letter, just dont feel up to the research but look up Paul Shattock's research, I think it is the Autism Research Unit at Sunderland, they do the urine test to see if your child would benefit from the diet.

Interestingly until 2 years ago Chris was hugely sensitive to gluten, I was being hassled re challengiing it for a more specific diagnosis (though I could have told them it wasn't coeliac)but he couldn't cope, we tried again in 2006 and he had lost all his reactions! I was finding the diet incompatible with eating outside the house in the UK (restaurants that did not know what was in their burgers (Old Orleans! and explaining for 1/2 hr in Pizza hut at Victoria because we had forgotten bases and the Sainsburys did not have them, that we wanted spag bol sans spaghetti! We are back on a normal diet, he may bit a bit more fuzzy but I felt it was worth that. What I am trying to say is that it appears if your child is on the diet that they may grow out of it as can happen with egg allergies. (sorry bit irrelevent) Back to MMR, I met a mum whose child definately reacted to and became autistic after the MMR and seeing a photo of him pre jab was heart rending, even if he would have had regressive autism I am sure the severe reaction to the jab and the severity of the regression were related to the MMR. Dont know why children cant be screened, one child even is one too many.

Seuss Thu 14-Aug-08 00:39:54

Joe90 - agree with the screening - why can't they even screen just the ones that might possibly maybe be at risk from MMR??? They do that test before BCG don't they - is there no such thing available for the little-ones? I personally don't think MMR made any difference to my ds1 but know enough folks who do think it made a difference to not risk giving it to ds2 and dd. My surgery were quite good when I explained my reasoning behind this (and I'm sure they probably get pressured about it!) but was unsure of the pre-school jabs. I will look into it more tomorrow and probably speak to drs. anyway. I apologise for my ignorance on this issue but I find the whole special needs thing has been such a learning curve and soooooo tiring I just cannot retain the info I used to!

jimjamshaslefttheyurt Thu 14-Aug-08 08:06:26

Joe90- who is John Richer? Is he a paediatrician?Oh hang on he's a clinical psych- wish mine was that switched on!

Our story is similar in that ds1's regression coincided with a change in his diet (from everything to only gluten containing foods). In his case it followed a sick bug, then a weird immune reaction followed by eczema herpeticum. This was treated quite aggressively (had to be- it can be fatal). I suspect the problem was that his gut was damaged by the treatment, although given the severity of his autism I wonder whether the herpes virus itself did some damage too.

Paul Shattock is always lovely to talk to. Another person to look up is Derrick MacFabe. If you type his name plus Canada into google you'll get a video he has produced.

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