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Am I doing the wrong thing?

(23 Posts)
Aefondkiss Mon 21-Jul-08 12:27:36

Ds is in pants since last Wednesday, refuses to pee or poo in the potty/toilet.

should I persevere? I want to keep trying a.t.m, I am relaxed, I have lots of time, patience, determination, I don't mind accidents, I just worry I am doing more harm than good.

my ds is 4 years old, he has a language delay and possible ASD.

He had a few successes but from Thursday 7 p.m until Friday 2p.m no pee, he just held onto his willy - I got the water table out, so he could play with water, then sprinkled water on his legs and he had a pee, then later I put him in the bath, he stood up and did a huge pee.

Saturday was the same, baths (well ankle deep water) and ds stood up and did huge pees in the potty (me holding potty so he could pee in it), same again today.

To get ds to sit on the potty I let him have a chocolate star, just for sitting. We have a sticker chart, which isn't of much interest, but I am still giving him a sticker for the stand up pees in the bath.

I have cut back on suggesting he uses the potty, even if he is wriggling. No wet nappies (in the morning), no wet pants during the day.

We cycled into our local town this morning, so from 9.30 a.m until 11.30, ds was dry, a wee bit wriggly, when we got home I popped him in the bath and he did a tiny pee in the pot....

will my bizarre method of potty training ever work?

( I posted this in behaviour and development, but I didn't get much of a response)

TotalChaos Mon 21-Jul-08 12:33:56

so - he's got the control but only wants to wee in the bath. How about - letting him sit on potty in bath but with no water in, then move potty out of the bath, coupled with chocolate or telly bribes (whatever works). If he doesnt' care about the stickers, then don't bother, only use things that do motivate him.

Tclanger Mon 21-Jul-08 12:39:46

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Aefondkiss Mon 21-Jul-08 12:40:25

he does have amazing control TC, he doesn't seem able to pee without the water, he will sit on the potty watching a dvd, he doesn't seem to know how/or want to let go the pee.

he gets all wriggly when he needs to go, but I wonder if there is gentle persuasion, or should I be looking at getting a potty training video? If I say do you want to go, he says no.

Aefondkiss Mon 21-Jul-08 12:45:24

Tclanger that is hard, my dh is trying, but it is pretty much down to me, I am hoping that just waiting and seeing will work, I am not forcing him, he is just wearing pants instead of pull ups, I just wonder how long he will go with the control thing?

My dh is going to buy a wall.e toy today, but I am not sure even toy incentives are a strong enough motivation for him... I think we might be in it for the long haul, ds is back at nursery mid August, so I might investigate cloth style trainer pants, because I really don't want to put him in a pull up again.

jimjamshaslefttheyurt Mon 21-Jul-08 14:05:35

When ds1 was first training a couple of times he got stuck and ended up in A&E having held on for 24 hours plus. If they hold on to long the bladder can go into spasm. The treatment is paracetamol and/or nurofen - they can then relax and go.

I agree with TotalChaos. Ditch the stickers and replace with whatever his favourite thing in the entire world is. Use a really really strong reinforcer for anything in the potty. I'd start in the bath as well (with water in if necessary) and slowly move out so no water, just bath, then next to the bath etc - reinforcing any wees in the potty really strongly.

allytjd Mon 21-Jul-08 14:33:26

Well i have to say that all three of my boys started potty training by me catching the wee they always liked to do standing up when they got in the bath, so I don't think it is that odd! I also ended p making that swishwishwish moise that you use to make horses wee (stopped short of rustling straw under them though). BE careful though, my DH (who,with the benfit of hindsight, definitely had a lot of asperger traits when he was little) was a late trainer but MIL made such a fuss about toileting that he was left with a bad phobia about peeing on demand or when anyone else was nearby. At his worst he couldn't pee when we were in the house and he couldn't pee at all if he held on too long(he would get in the bath to do it just like your DS) eventually (in his thirties!)it prevented him travelling for work so he got CBT on the NHS and something called EFT, wish worked remarkably well. Why am I telling you this? well it gave me a lot of insights talking about these issues with an aspie adult, apparently the sphincter in the ureter clamps shut tight if you are anxious (tighter in boys than girls) and you really can't go. DH also couldn't go preventitively ie. when his bladder wasn't completely full. Interestingly he could always go outdoors even at his worst (as long as no-one was around). There is a warmer spell of weather coming why not try him naked and outside, but if he is getting really anxious leave it for a while, let him have some successes without him having to try too hard ie. catch wee when in bath.

cyberseraphim Mon 21-Jul-08 14:35:14

My DS1 is 4 and 4 months and it took 3 months to toilet train him so any success even if it is not ideal is a good sign for the future. DS1 is tall for his age so a potty was never an option - we just went straight to an adult toilet. Is that something you could consider? My DS1 is definitely ASD though so we also had to avoid setting up a routine that wouldn't be practical out and about.

SixSpotBurnet Mon 21-Jul-08 14:48:11

My DS3 is nearly 4 and ASD and we are trying to potty-train him at the moment as well.

He has managed several wees in the potty but refuses to sit on the potty or the toilet so Dh always puts a pull-up back on him when he thinks a poo is due!

DS3 will often go in the potty when confronted with it so we have been offering him the potty every hour or so.

Aefondkiss Mon 21-Jul-08 18:22:08

it is very re-assuring to read your replies and opinions.

we have a success to build on, dh got the strong motivator today, a wall.e toy, brought it home and ds wanted it straight away, dh said do a pee on the potty and ds wriggled a wee bit then did a pee ! ! ! I know it is only one success but it means so much to me, and makes me think he might really be ready?

now to build on that success.... we may have a huge collection of wall.e toys soon.... but will it work with poo?

Good luck with the potty training sixspot, it sounds like your ds is willing to go for a pee, which is pretty good.

allytjd, your poor dh! I had heard about a condition where people cannot pee when there are other people about, and it is one of my fears that I might do psychological damage with ds, I want to hear other opinions and be open to advice.

I am trying to let my ds be, even when he wriggles and I know he is desperate I just ignore him/gently hint at trying the potty, but every few hours we will try the bath if there is no pee to avoid the thing Jimjams mentioned!

spacegirl Mon 21-Jul-08 18:36:12

Recently with my ds2 similar to yours in dx and age I went on to major bribary. As he has been constipated forever it is not as expensive as every day. Our problems have been poos. He could have a thomas train of his choice every time he pooed (all of his poo) on the toilet. Then every two, now we are up to every five. It took a couple of months for that to sink in but it has worked. For about a month now he has not pooed in his nappy. He doesn't like stickers but thomas is his life! He takes a while to come around to new stuff but he is now voluntarily going to the toilet.

Aefondkiss Mon 21-Jul-08 19:59:25

oooh spacegirl that gives me hope, well done to you for perseverance and your ds for getting there... I will be dealing with poo,eventually.

allytjd Mon 21-Jul-08 20:14:20

Hope I didn't scare you aefondkiss (that song always makes me cry by the way). My MIL is a lovely woman in many ways but a bit of a stickler for hygiene etc. and she was only 18 when she had DH and lived in a caravan with only buckets of cold water for washing nappies! so I can't really blame her for being desperate to train DH, you sound much more laid back.
DS2 who has AS was harder to train than his brothers, especially with poos I'm afraid, he used to sneak off into corners and poo in his pants regularly and he had loose bowels for years! Happy days, but after about a year he was OK and luckily we have mostly wooden floors.

sphil Mon 21-Jul-08 20:18:10

We are about to restart with DS2 (5.5) after a couple of failed attempts. The bath thing is very interesting - I might try that. The problem with him is finding a strong enough reinforcer - what he likes best of all are jumps, swings and spins - not easy to do immediately he's done a wee!

We are getting a potty chair from the OT - like Cyber's DS he is too big for a potty, but getting him from pee to toilet has proved problematic - I need to be able to catch it grin.

We should compare notes over the summer!

Aefondkiss Mon 21-Jul-08 20:59:14

no ally you didn't, I feel for your mil, caravan living is hard work, and I have total respect for women who have lived without the washing machine!

my ds has poo problems, but they are all control related atm, and because his poo tends to be quite predictable I am not too worried about them.

sphil, good luck, I can't think what might help with him, those pogo stick things on a ball?... but he might be too young, or they may not be suitable... does he have a spacehopper? you could blow one up and have it hanging up somewhere?

ds is probably too big for the potty, so is peeing in it standing up, I have heard of people using yoghurt pots to catch pee, but I worry it might overspill, with my ds's held in pee.

Let me know how you get on with the potty chair, I have thought of buying one but I am not sure.

sphil Mon 21-Jul-08 23:16:49

He loves his spacehopper, but we've had it lying around too long for it to be a powerful reward, iyswim.

Pmsl (excuse the pun) at yoghurt pots - surely it would have to be a large one? grin

Will let you know about potty chair.

Aefondkiss Mon 21-Jul-08 23:25:14

ooh but what about a realllly cool spacehopper?

I like the one that looks a bt like thisgrin and the spacehopper track is so fab... not sure dla would cover it though...

sphil Mon 21-Jul-08 23:33:25

OMG! DS2 would LOVE the grin one - and I think the horse is great too. Had no idea spacehoppers came in so many varieties.

Aefondkiss Mon 21-Jul-08 23:47:55

powerful reinforcer?

they look great, I love the horse one, which I note they do in adult sizes, so you could get a family set, great for social interaction too.

Aefondkiss Tue 22-Jul-08 13:18:02

we have had two wall.e motivated pees today, I never knew a toy could have so much influence on a child!

I took Wall.e away when ds was sleeping, so he had to do a pee to get him this morning and the same again after lunch, he was a bit tearful but he managed to go.

we've been to my local town, I cycled in and we were there from 10 a.m and got home at the back of 12, ds has great bladder control, he needed a pee, but wouldn't go until we got home

Raine3 Tue 29-Jul-08 00:21:22

This may sound silly grin but he might like the splash in the water, so you could try putting some water in the potty first hmm

wolfjane Thu 31-Jul-08 22:00:23

my asd ds was a nightmare to potty train,it went on for years( well, he is still not perfect at the age of 7).the thing that got him going and wearing pants, was being on holiday with his dad, and going in the toilet with him all the time, he needs the use of visuals alot, so being able to actually see the process did the trick! my ds has done the over 24 hour thing too, and still can if he can't be bothered to go! do you use visual aids with ds at all? I was really surprised how well they work when i started using them.

knat Sun 03-Aug-08 12:56:31

dd is asd (poss aspergers, adhd and oppositional) and is 4.9. Toilet training hs been a nightmare. She is dry of a night and has generally very good bladder control however if i dont take her she will just wee and poo where she is. We can get through 5 or 6 pairs of pants a day when she poos as she does a bit and stops herself etc. Nothing seems to work. She starts school in September and i dont know how shes going to cope there. She doesnt respond to peer pressure so i dont think copying the other children will help (didnt at preschool!). visual aids are a bit hit and miss with her (she hates visual timetables) and tried rewards but doesnt really seem to work. She can get quite agressive when i take her to the toilet and other times shes fine. But she will never say she needs to go and will just sit in what she has done almost oblivious. Any other ideas?

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