Does your DC have GDD? When did they first speak?

[Arabica]

Just curious, as DD is 2 next month and is yet to say anything at all or even point at something and grunt at it...she is not thought to be AS though.

[misscutandstick]

FIOFIO - just a little thought (sorry for butting in - but im interested in this thread too, Dot {2.1} doesnt communicate either)... but it would be difficult if DD doesnt actually understand what a duck/car/sheep is, or even the fact that its a question. Arabica - does your DD have the concentration to sit with a book? I only ask, as Dot wouldnt even get his backside on the chair (let alone see the book!) before hes got distracted and wandered off again!

How would one teach a child to point if they simply dont understand the concept of it? I have wrestled with this thought for quite a while... and im not sure you can, unless someone else has done it and can share?

Talking of sharing Arabica, does your DD bring you stuff to share? i suppose in that instance tapping on bits of the item thats shes interested in might work... i dont know, im sorry, im rambling again

Im sorry, i just get so caught up - excuse me.

[r3dh3d]

DD1 is 4 1/2 and nowhere near talking. We're only just starting to see glimmers of hope she may one day have a word or two.

In our case the main problem has been that the precursors to language are all missing, due to all the social processing being knocked out. So there has been no shared attention, eye pointing, social games (like peek a boo) clapping, laughing, copying etc. etc. No pointing either. There has been some mention of ASD but only in a "of course you'll never get a diagnosis because she's got too many other problems" sort of a way. Actually, I think it's qualitatively different to ASD though a lot of the issues are the same. At your DD's age, if she wanted something she had no idea that she could "ask" for it in any way - had no concept of what people were for. If she was hungry, she cried, but not "at" anyone and when food arrived she was always surprised.

She has gradually "learned" some social stuff over the last two years and we've trained her to use one sign ("food", unsurprisingly - her only reliable motivator) though not to point reliably - she will point at her drink when at the table, but isn't able to generalise that to other objects she wants in other contexts. She's now a very friendly and cuddly little person and is starting to show signs of intent to communicate.

I know another child with in some ways similar problems to her (brain damage, seizures, high levels of epilepsy meds, withdrawn, social impairment) who has picked up picture exchange very nicely at about your DD's age. He doesn't do pointing etc. and on the face of it you'd say he was less communicative than DD1 now is. But he'll move onto PECs fairly smoothly now while she's still got a one-word vocabulary. Even in kids who appear similar it really is very much down to the individual - I think as much as anything it's about how they rewire and adapt to to get around whatever the original problem is, which is an entirely organic and unpredictable process.

[caitlinnjacksmummy]

Hey just want to join in, my son Jack, 16 months on the 2nd has GDD, epilepsy, brain damage and hypotonia(very low muscle tone), due to a gentic disorder we have just found out about genetic disorder 2 days ago, and further investigations are to be done as the dr's don't know too much about this disorder... but he can't sit unaided, point etc, think he understands what I and other family members are saying to him, he is babbling and trying to make words, although none recognisable, he will most prob not walk til 4 or 5 the physio has said, because of the hypotonia, she said on't expect him to be walking at 2anyway, so I do worry about his future and walking, talking, pointing , understanding , school etc....it is a hard time....

[misscutandstick]

I have heard about the PECS, but how much understanding would a child need to be able to manage it? I ask because Im not entirely sure Dot understands pictures in books - though i understand that the PECS pictures are entirely different to story pictures - and he only takes a very mild interest if theres a character hes recognises from one of his DVD's (IE blue from blues clues).

R3 - its encouraging that the intent is now there! My last meeting with Dots SALT said that its a good sign, and hopefully eventually communication should follow in time of some description. I was just wondering which social stuff it was that she has managed? And what "I think it's qualitatively different to ASD.." meant? i dont understand, could you explain please - sorry i must sound a complete bimbo, im just really interested, if you wouldnt mind at all... sorry for highjacking Arabica

[TinySocks]

HI Arabica. DS1 (3.4 y/o) also has GDD, I can totally understand why you are asking this question. I keep wanted to gather round a nice group of people with children similar to DS and go through a questionnaire! To try and get an idea of when DS will do x, y, z. I wish I had a crystal ball to give me the answers.

But like FioFio said, they are all so different. It is just impossible to compare and predict when things will happen.

All we can do is keep encouraging our DSs. I don't know if pointing is something you can encourage? Or does it just happen naturally. But when I wanted to teach DS to point, I used feeding time as my tool. So for example, I would offer two yogurts and he would have to point at the one he wanted (with a little help at first).

As I say, not sure if this actually helped or if it was going to happen anyway.

[TinySocks]

sorry, "I keep wanting"

[cktwo]

misscutandstick - our SALT has suggested giving choices (epecially obvious ones) to encourage pointing eg do you want a strawberry or banana?

We based it around food but have now spread it to other things and have found it's worked. DD1 points loads more than she did 6 months ago.

[TotalChaos]

other posters will know much more about this - but I know that pointing can be taught to kids with ASD - that sometimes it's a case of doing it hand over hand, to show them what to do first iyswim.

misscutandstick - DS was just about verbal when I started using PECs, so I've not done PECs from the beginning stages, but I think you can start with photographs of actual objects, if your kid isn't at the stage of understanding generalisation - i.e. that a line drawing of a cake represents a real cake iyswim.

[2loudboys]

My GDD son is now 8 so all of this is now embarrassingly hazy. But I just wanted to say that my DS still doesn't have any generally intelligible speech and probably never will. But in spite of this he has managed extremely well, making himself understood by a mixture of makaton,pointing, physically dragging people, yelling etc and is happily settled in mainstream school (with full-time 1-1 support). I think Arabica, that you need to not obsess about talking, but focus on the idea of communication in every context that you can. I think with DS, food was a huge motivating factor (still is ) so I used to always offer him a choice of 2 food items, or 2 videos or 2 toys and encourage him to make his choice any way he could. The great thing about GDD and SN in general is that you never know what your child is capable of.

[misscutandstick]

i was told to use choices with a barely understandable 4y/o who had ADHD (DS1, 11yrs ago)... unfortunately he either didnt understand what i was asking (even with both options in hand) or really didnt give a fig for the choices, but it never worked for him!

But im sure for every one it doesnt work with, it works for another.

At the moment i think it wouldnt work for DS5 either as he doesnt understand what we say to him - so he would probably wonder why we were waving stuff at him! but hey, its worth a try!

And i agree, theres definately more to communication than speech, and i think that Arabica has mentioned before that her DD does communicate in her own way, but we all want to know when our DC will do x,y and z...hoping that someone has good news for us and happy stories with successful endings.

xxx keeley xxx

[expatinscotland]

My daughter has marked dyspraxia and has experienced gross and fine motor skills delays from the get go.

She started to say intelligble words from the time she was about 2 - same time she starts to walk.

[wrinklytum]

DD is 2.5 not much speech (cat and car) and starting Mumumuma and Dadada but has a few simple signs (makaton) and pointing both with hands and eye-pointing. She's pretty determined to make herself understood despite her lack of speech

[misscutandstick]

Fiofio - im really so sorry, again i have stumbled into "foot-in-mouth" desease territory again DH has just shouted "what? but thats so rare!", I have no intent to offend, im just really crap with words. many apologies, honestly, consider wrists slapped.

all im after, like anyone else, is answers.Im hoping that sharing experiences will shed some light. Im sorry that the way in which i ask questions causes offense, i know i just blunder in there and find it difficult to see how it looks from a different perspective. Im just a mum concerned about her son, and see others just as concerned about their children, and automatically assume stuff

anyhoo... gonna stop rambling... sorry.

[2loudboys]

I think what we are trying to say is that you just have to persist with endless (and sometimes very difficult) optimism. Try everything you can think of to show your dc that they can make their needs/wants known. We definitely did lots of hand over hand pointing, & at the start if ds so much as looked at one of the two things I was offering I'd make a big deal of it etc etc.

Fio, ds sounds very similar to your dd - he actually does really try to talk, but his hypotonia has affected his mouth, neck and tongue and he just can't get his mouth to make the right shapes, so dh, ds2 and I usually understand his words(generally nouns without any consonants ), but normal types wouldn't have a hope without my well-honed translation skills . I think the way ahead for him is really going to be ICT, and we have everything crossed for that.

[Arabica]

FioFio, DD does like books in that she likes to turn the pages and play with/chew the book itself (especially one which has shiny paper inside). I read to her anyway and point to the pictures, but she isn't taking an interest in them yet unless there is an interesting texture to explore with her fingers.
r3, DD doesn't point but she has started to understand peek a boo, ie she laughs if I hide my face but she doesn't do it back (yet). She can do the makaton sign for hello but only if someone else does it first.
MsC&S, DD doesn't bring me stuff yet but she does sometimes take a book out of her box and sit with it for a minute or so(usually turns a page or two then chews it)
TinySocks, loving the crystal ball idea, that's exactly what I would like! It feels as if DD's been on the verge of making a communication breakthrough for months. I'd be happy with one consistent makaton sign. Whereas, yes I know I should not compare, her little nt friends are now saying whole sentences, eg 'mummy I want fire engine' or 'I wearing a hat'
2 loud boys--interesting about the hypotonia affecting the ability to make the right shapes for words. Nobody's mentioned this before, I wonder if DD's hypotonia could be a factor? I'll ask the SALT when I see her.
Could someone tell me what 'eye pointing' is? Assume it's when they stare at something they want (and maybe make a noise or gesture to indicate they want it?) If so this appears to be an emerging skill for DD because she knows her pink bag has milk in it and sometimes she'll look at it and get agitated/excited.

[2loudboys]

Arabica, sounds like your dd is really on the verge of communicating - if she knows her pink bag has her milk in it and is looking at it & getting excited, what you need to do is make a HUGE song & dance about the milk being in there and ask her if she wants it (you can do some real ham acting here with panto-type nodding or shaking of head etc etc) Then the usual 'Oh CLEVER you, how CLEVER to tell Mummy you want the milk etc etc).

Re: hypotonia, my ds's pronunciation came on noticeably with old fashioned tongue and mouth exercises. He uses something called Mr. Tongue exercises regularly at school.

Believe me, it sounds like you are doing all the right things!!

[Arabica]

Thanks 2loudboys, it's good to be reassured. We do make a HUGE deal out of every attempt at communication--even when it means having 'conversations' by blowing raspberries, whilst walking around Woolworths.
The SALT says DD's 'on the verge of communicating' every time we see her. And we did feel we had a big breakthrough a few weeks back when she signed 'hello' in Makaton. However, although she occasionally copies someone else's 'hello' sign, she's yet to initiate this. But watch this space.

[ManxMum]

DS is 8yrs and 2 weeks. We have a few words and getting more everyday! He understands a lot and can read some things. He does have verbal dyspraxia too.

[Arabica]

ManxMum, do you use Makaton to help you communicate?

[oldcrock]

dd2 is 7 and has GDD. She has a few intelligible words, "ma" "na" (no) "up". She indicates she is hungry by going to the kitchen and looking interested! Otherwise most of her communication is by complaining and it is a process of elimination to find out what is the matter. She is gradually making more and more sounds so I'm hoping more words will gradually emerge. She uses PECs with a little bit of success, I'm not sure how reliable her choices are. I've tried signing but she hasn't shown any interest or response, other than a look of "are you nuts Mum?"! She has never really pointed. She does have a great sense of humour though, and knows when she's being a little tinker!

[jimjamshaslefttheyurt]

misscutandstick

DS1 used to be as you describe, couldn;t adult direct his attention long enough to do anything (it was fleeting/seconds)- ABA established an ability to learn- and now he can actually be taught things. But it started by literally getting him to sit on a chair.

A child doesn't need to understand anything at all to be taught PECS. That's the beauty of it. Have seen video of an adult with no communicative abilities at all, no sign, nothing, be taught to use PECS extremely rapidly. It's why it was so necessary for ds1 at the beginning. He had no imitation skills, no adult directed attentional skills. He was a sweetie and affectionate and cuddly, but unteachable. ABA and PECS laid the foundations and we can now do all sorts.