Disciplining a child with autism

[difficultsituation]

I am a regular who doesn't want RL people to know me. Anyway, I basically have a complicated situation and was hoping for tips/advice on how to deal with it.

My dss who are 5 and 4 have an 8yr old cousin who has been dx with mild autism and GDD. We all spend a lot of time together. Although all the boys play together this often deteriorates rapidly into fighting. Cousin can be spontaneously violent for no apparent reason and can use rude language, which we have all agreed to ignore.

I have disciplining strategies for my dss (mainly naughty step) but obviously can't impose this on cousin, whose parents don't really follow a strategy other than constantly saying don't do that and coming up with empty threats, or else going to an extreme reaction and smacking.

I realise that autism is a spectrum and every child will require a different strategy but I was hoping for some ideas as to how to help the children have a more peaceful relationship.

[Peachy]

OK, can only post my experiences here rather than advise, because as you said all kids on the spectrum are different, and also the GDD adds another dimension.

DS3- 4.5-fairly severe with speech delay- hard to discipline verbally as his langauge is sor estricted and he doesn't understand. A clear No results in hysterical laughter as he doesn't get emotional voices very well. We remove PC time for him (its the only thing he really loves). I'm not sure how much he realises the link but we are trying to establish the link.

DS1- 8- HFA at a milder level but with quite marked behavioural / aggressive issues.

Oh if only I knew how to discipline him! If I tell him to do something (going to bed is the clareast example) he says no, won't accept anyone on this planet has jurisdiction above him. Can't remove items he loves- as he ahs no attachment to material goods. Pudding bans work for short periods, but as I have a hstory of eating disorder I am very wary. And even then, when the incidentsa re several a day, thre's only so many puds you can remove....

It can be exttremely difficult to discipline some ASD kids, others like ds3 do have a more natural desire to please anyway and are easier to manage behaviourally. But others-

[TotalChaos]

I don't have experience of an 8 year old boy - similarly to Peachy I have a 3.11 year old who is eager to please. But off the top of my head, would have thought rather than discipline it might be more a case of careful supervision and intercepting him before things deteriorate, with a view hopefully to getting the lad to recognise the signs he's getting wound up and retreat somewhere quiet to calm down. Possibly some sort of reward chart system might motivate too. IIRC the NAS (National Autistic Society) run regular short courses for parents about dealing with kids with ASD (including behaviour problems), if the parents have not been on anything like that, that might be useful.

[difficultsituation]

Thanks Peachy for your words, I can see with dss' cousin how difficult it is as he also laughs when being told of and being deprived of toys doesn't affect him either. It seems to me that a lot of the things he does may be beyond his control - eg the rude language, which clearly he has picked up from school, as he can go from being very helpful and kind to suddenly hitting and kicking.

But as the parents don't really have a consistent strategy I can't tell how much of his mis-behaving is down to his SN and how much is due to confusion due to mixed messages from parents.

[difficultsituation]

Thanks TotalChaos, they have tried reward charts with no success, but other types of rewards do work sometimes. Unfortunately the parents are not the type to really supervise closely, they seem sort of resigned to things. I will look into the courses you mention but I think they might feel I am intruding if I suggest it.

[KarenThirl]

Discipline is a difficult and complicated issue with autistic children. IMO it's part of a full strategy and can't really be singled out on its own. My own son with AS is 9 and a couple of years ago we had dreadful problems with discipline, but as time's gone on we've taught him about his condition, increased his self-awareness, how to understand his anger and inappropriate behaviour and how to control it. He's a very different boy as a result, but it's much more complex than simply teaching him right from wrong.

A lot of what we teach him is about choice and consequence, calmly letting him know that if he chooses to act in a certain way then this is what will happen, and giving him control over his situation. This has taken a long time but now he accepts this and the disciplinary consequences that follow if he makes the wrong choice.

Reward systems - again they've been very successful for my ds but they don't stand alone very well, they work best as part of a whole system approach. They also need to be focused around what's important to the child - not many 8 year olds will be impressed by another boring star on his chart, but might cooperate if it means another ten minutes on his computer game. One of our biggest successes is the promise of a family Wii Sports competition - shared time is always appreciated.

The most important thing of all is consistency. Any lapse and the whole system breaks down and you've lost control.

It might be an idea to arrange to meet with the other family in a neutral place such as the park, where they can all play and let off steam when things are going well but there's space for supportive (rather than punitive) time-outs if your kids need a break from the other lad's aggression and rudeness. Or if you must meet at each others homes have house rules and firm consequences if they're broken, but to be honest I'm not sure it sounds as though the other boy's mum would stick to it, from what you've said.

It is indeed a tricky situation, and I hope you find a solution.

[KarenThirl]

And the NAS Help2 courses are excellent! One day seminars covering anger management, social stories, sensory issues, siblings... can't remember the rest but they're fab.

[difficultsituation]

Thank you KarenThirl, it is very encouraging to hear about your ds and how well he is doing.

I think you are right that the family would not necessarily stick to any particular strategy, they live with MIL so you have three different people with three different approaches. None of them are that interested in researching and learning about how to help their ds. I'm not wanting to criticise, it's just that their background and circumstances and their culture (same as mine) is one where things like this are not always discussed. The few times I have brought up the subject SIL has gone very quiet.

You are right, it is tricky, and the only thing I can really do anything about, is the relationship between the children. My own ds1, now seeing that cousin sometimes lashes out has started to provoke him, which is terrible and I come down hard on him for this.

[yurt1]

If he has no sanctions (ie things he cares about) then it is incredibly hard to discipline. We have this often with ds1.

His GDD means he may not understand things like reward charts ore removing privileges.

He laughs at you because you look funny when telling him off. DS1 does exactly the same.

IN ds1's case I try to stop things happening in the first place. Once its happened it's a bit late.

There may be a particular behaviour that needs to be worked on - in which case you need to work out why it's happening, what triggers it and what sort of response he gets when it happens.

ds1 and ds3 have the same sort of relationship at the moment as your son and cousin have. DS3 (aged 3) will follow ds1 right in his face until ds1 strangles him (! yes seriously) - he then shrieks, ds1 thinks this is a hilarious noise then 5 minutes later ds3 is doing it again. This has started this week and I haven't really found a strategy that works. YEsterday I did insist that ds3 leave ds1 alone for a while (which was bloody hard as ds3 is stubborn and willfull). It's hard because they're kind of playing, but ds1 has no idea how to.

I think strong rules with your ds1 would help (even if hard).

[difficultsituation]

Thanks yurt1, that is very helpful.

I agree that when they are playing together I will need to be vigilant to see the dynamics of what happens and what the responses are.

Ds and cousin's relationship is exactly as you describe and has become a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy.

Are there any books on the subject that you have found to be helpful? I just want to try and get an idea of cousin's thought processes.

[yurt1]

Loads- but tbh it sounds as if the GDD is more of an issue. Have a browse of the Jessica Kingsley website. She publishes loads of easy to read book about autism and learning disabilities/developmental delays.

[nannynick]

If it's of help... I use the principles of 1-2-3Magic with a variety of children for whom I care, some are dx autistic. It is suitable for children with a mental age of 2 or above. Very important to follow the no talking rule, as autistic children I find respond best when they are presented with very clear rules, and very little speech communication, avoid discussion.
With your own dss, you can use the same method, but on 3, use the naughty step as they are used to that.

[difficultsituation]

thanks yurt1, will have a look into that.

nannynick, thank you that sounds very interesting, especially the idea of not talking and explaining too much. It probably is very difficult for children to process so much information and actions will get through to them more effectively. Will order it.

[KarenThirl]

That's good advice from iwearflairs. We use a timer for just about everything, plus I give warning countdowns so J knows when things will change, eg ten minutes till tea time, five minutes, I'm putting it out now, come to the table. If I just go straight to "Come to the table" he'll freak out - he needs time to finish the game he's playing. With most AS children activities have to have a definite beginning and end. Even some NT children struggle with this but with autism it's part of the need for control of their own environment and situations.

[nannynick]

iwearflairs - timers can work well. I take a 5 min sandglass one to the park, and use it to help announce when it is time to leave the park. The boys are warned at 10 mins, 7mins, then timer is produced at 5 mins, which they can then view (if they so wish), and I will announce when there is about 3 mins left, 2 mins left 1 min left. Get some odd stares from parents in the park, but it does seem to work as a way of letting the boys know the timescale in which I expect them to comply.

Undesirable behaviour (hiding under a bed when it is bedtime for example) can be counted using the 1-2-3 method, but I try to avoid using this for what is known as start behaviour (such as starting the bedtime routine).

Delay tactics I find often includes not wearing clothes (children seem to learn quickly that if they are naked, you won't take them out of the house). I use the timer for this (getting dressed is 'start behaviour') by saying "If you are not dressed when the sand runs out, I will get you dressed." When they start making an effort to get dressed (to beat the timer) I then offer them assistance. If they refuse to get dressed, the sand runs out, and I get them dressed (you know that battle I'm sure).
I find it's give them a simple choice, and hope that they make the right choice. If they don't, then carry out whatever the alternative choice was.

But the worst thing is that he won't stop any game he is playing in the middle, e.g. to come and eat lunch while the food is still hot.

I wouldn't want to stop doing something I was enjoying either! If they are enjoying something, why disrupt it. Food can often be kept warm (or eaten cold).
Advance Planning can help with this type of situation... a set meal time for example. Also prior warnings that the meal time is approaching, and it will be tidy-up time. Warnings at least at 10 min, 5 min, 3 min.
Using timer from 5 mins to countdown the remaining time to tidy-up time.

Bedtime tip: don't insist on sleep. Insist that they stay in their room. Always try to follow the same wind-down routine, so there is plenty of advance notice that bedtime is approaching. Drink of Warm Milk with an oat biscuit can help (both contain Tryptophan an essential amino acid, which has been found to be an effective sleep aid).