Asking all expert mothers on here their advise - sorry a bit long

[cantputfingeron]

DS is nearly 5 and I have been told by teacher that she wants him observed by a specialist in school as she thinks he has problems with relating to others. She has made veiled suggestions that he might be SN.

I know that there are many threads like this, but I still hope some of you will find the time to comment as I know there are many experienced mums on the subject in this section and this is really worrying me at the moment.

This is DS (sorry a bit long) and I think he?s normal?.but I am open to any advice or insight you can give as I am so used to him.

• He always understands me and members of our family perfectly and can be cheeky in his replies, but his teacher has told me that he cannot stand still in class, seems like he?s not listening and always on his own planet.

• He can be quite clumsy socially, so he?s either too shy or too forward with new kids, and I believe this is what the school has noticed as he didn?t know anybody in his class when he started.

• He was potty trained by 3, with a few accidents still happening at night.

Eats and sleeps ok.

• He is learning to read, loves books etc. always has. He?s finding writing difficult and only lately with much persuasion has started to hold his pen right. Still doesn?t like to use fork and knife and will revert to hands when not watched.

• He occasionally has huge, screaming tantrums if he doesn?t get his own way. He doesn?t get violent with people but just goes mad and this can go on for half an hour until he can do something very extreme like ripping a poster from the wall or breaking a toy if not stopped.

• He used to be scared of hairdryers and dryers in public toilets , but has grown out of it so much that now he plays with them (especially the ones in the public toilets!)

• He used to hate having his hair cut, because of fear of scissors until he was 3 - but now he will seat still and enjoy his haircut as long as he gets a sticker at the end

• He always asked why questions since he was 3, however at the time it would just be why over and over- wasn't listening to answer iyswim, but now will ask Why about something and then will make his own remarks - i.e. After I read him "The ugly ducling" story he asked: Mummy why is everybody mean to the ugly duckling? - answer: because he's different, and DS remark: "that's not fair, he's a nice duckling!"

• He shows a lot of empathy with people if he believes they are sad or not well

• he's very affectionate not just with me and dp, but also with friends little children (he will cuddle them and give them a hug when they are leaving.)

• Nursery always thought he was a star. GP thinks he's absolutely normal for his age.

[ALMummy]

cantputfingeron, I could have written your post. Almost single thing in it is DS. I am the same stage as you though so am after advice myself. We had our first meeting with DS teacher today and he is going to be referred to the ED Psych. I dont know what to say except that I really understand what you are going through and I hope someone will be along to give us some advice soon.

[ancientmiddleagedmum]

There doesn't sound too much wrong to me, but I am no expert. I do think some schools are too quick to jump onto the SEN track - there was a boy in my DD's class who they were trying to say was aspergers due to some similar things to your list, and I was so annoyed as they put the mum through needless worry. I had this kid to many playdates and could definitely tell his mum he wasn't aspergers, but she took him to the GP who took a couple of minutes to say no, he isn't. The haircut and hairdryers things sound a little like autistic behaviours, but not if he has already grown out of them. My ASD son is 5 and still screams the place down on haircuts, and the thought that something as small as a sticker could calm him down is unreal! If GP thinks he's normal, I think school might just be trying to get some kind of ADHD thing going, but sometimes boys are just boys. The relating to others veiled threat sounds like she is thinking aspergers, but to me there are no signs in the list above. Good luck anyway!

[needmorecoffee]

He soundsa within normal range to me. I have a son with Aspergers and at 5 he was hiding under the table with his fingers in his ears and complaining about each and every label in his clothing!

[cantputfingeron]

AlMummy - my thought are with you, I had actually read your post and found the two boys strikingly similar! let us know how it goes - I am following your thread...

AMM- thanks for your words, they make me feel a bit better. I can't do playdates as I work fulltime so I can't really compare with children in his class, who seem to be all very good socially. He still sees his friends from nursery and he gets on well with them, but I am not sure what the interaction is like with the kids in his class...

Any more advise and opinions are most welcome!

[cantputfingeron]

hi needmorecoffee - ds used to have an obsession with labels between the ages of 1 and 2 and 1/2- we couldn't put him to sleep without him finding and stroking the label in the teddy bear/blanket /pijama.
He's grown out of that though and now never mentions labels, only when making sure he's putting t/shirt/pants or trousers the right way around as he knows they go at the back.

[cantputfingeron]

sorry - just re-read my post and I do sound like a paranoid mum...I shouldn't overanalyze past methink....

[NAB3wishesfor2008]

He sounds normal to me. I have a challenging almost 7 year old at the moment...

[cantputfingeron]

anymore mumsnetters with SN experience which could give their opinion?

thanks in advance

[ALMummy]

cantputfingeron, Just looked at my thread. It didnt get any replies for a while so I never saw that you had replied. Unbelievable how similar they sound. When I read your first post for just a second I thought is this the one I posted before? I seem to spend all my time on the internet looking for proof that he is or isnt ASD. In our meeting today his teacher said that he seems to prefer the company of adults and will always seek out the adult in the playground at school and stand chatting to her. He just doesnt seem to know how to relate to children at all. TBH I thought so what? I was very shy as a child and had few friends. Would I be labelled as ASD now if assessed? Who is to say what is 'normal' anyway? I never saw anything that concerned me until he started school so it has all come as a huge shock really. Please do post as to how things turn out for you and your DS.

[cantputfingeron]

thanks AlMummy - what will be the next step for you?

we need to wait end of March to know results and I am dreading the wait.

Where are you? we are in Middlesex

[cantputfingeron]

bump

[cantputfingeron]

blossomhill, Yurt...Peachy you all seem quite knowledgeable on this- any opinion to give to a worried mum?

We are meeting with the teacher again on Thursday and I don't really know how to handle this

Also- I would like to have some more knowledge as now I have started over analyizing ds and I don't think is healthy for him.... what sort of things would you be looking at?

[twocutedarlings]

Hi,

Im no expert, but i do have a daughter (also 5) who has a Dx of Aspergers.

I really feel for you i actually found what you are going through now far more difficult than the actual Dx IYSWIM.

I sounds to me from what you have writen about that his teacher is probably thinking along the lines of Aspergers tbh.

Have you had a look at the triad of impairment on the NAS website?

You need to trust your gut instincts here, if you believe deepdown that there is something not quite right with your DS then you need to follow it through.

Hope this helps

[ALMummy]

cantputfingeron, We have had a meeting with DS teacher and SENCO and he is being referred to the Ed Psych. This will not happen until after half term though so I was thinking of taking him back to my GP in the meantime and asking for a referral to a Community Paediatrician also. This is the information I have been hoping to get on my threads as to whether this would be a good idea or not, or whether I should just leave it to the school.

I know what you mean about overanalysing your DS, I have been doing this for months and feeling worried and scared whenever he does or says something that might be ASD/Aspergers. In a way I am glad the ball has started rolling at least now it is out in the open and I am not waiting for his teachers to say something every day. We filled in a form saying we agreed to him being referred and I handed that in today.

We are in London.

[cantputfingeron]

thanks twocutedarlings, this website is great for information.

My gut feeling is that he's OK, only a bit shy and not very savvy socially - as he's only 4 and half...but I want to rule out anything I haven't noticed as I love him in every single thing he does and maybe I consider "normal" behaviour everything he does...

AlMummy, pleased that things are progressing for you, the wait is horrendous - and even if I don't want to analyze I still do..... I only want to make sure ds doesn't notice.

[twocutedarlings]

I think the main thing to remember here is that both your boys will still be the same regardless of SN or not.

ALMummy, i would go back to your GP (see a differant one if poss) and ask for a referal to a Developmental Pead not a community one if poss. My DD was seen twice by a community pead and on both occasions they failed to pick up on any of DDs differances.

Did you see the links i posted on you thread btw.

[twocutedarlings]

Ooops cross threads about the links almummy

[cantputfingeron]

that goes without saying twocutedarlings...I love ds the way he is more than anything in the world and nothing will change that.

BUT you still worry they might have a hard time in life and want to do what's best to soften the blow if you can...

[ALMummy]

Thanks twocutedarlings. Taking DS to GP tommorrow, thanks for the info regarding Developmental GP etc. You are so right about him being the same regardless of SN or not. I would not have him any other way. I just want something definite instead of all the wondering. I cant stand the idea of him being labelled as naughty and being punished or told off for things he cant help.

[ALMummy]

Sorry Developmental Paediatrician not GP.

[flyingmum]

From the original OP I would possibly say there might be a bit of dyspraxia there perhaps with a touch of ADHD OR it might be auditory processing. BUT in a busy classroom he is just distracted by loads of stuff going on. Lots of kids are a bit socially inept - if you can't be shy at 4 then heaven help you. My second son had to have his hearing tested because they were worried he wasn't listening. I said OK but I know full well his hearing was fine - of course it was but he was just distracted by a busy environment. I was terrified of our hoover for years - oh and switching the TV off. Lots of people have funny quirks that could be autistic but they are not on the spectrum or not enough to make a huge difference to their lives.

If he is a bit shy and socially inept and they pick this up and perhaps give him some small group work and social skills type lessons then that's not going to do any harm and might help him. If he has got a 'something' then clearly it's a pretty mild 'something' and better to know about it now (and it is hard to swallow I know) and he gets put on the SEN register so that if he needs help later on if school for him gets tougher he's on that list and you don't have to fight so hard. If he's on the list but he doesn't need the help - well that's brilliant.
I know it's a really worrying time and no one wants their child to have SEN but as a parent and as a teacher it is far far better that any difficulties, however minor, are picked up now while he's little (and frankly I think most of what you wrote sounds like normal 4 year old behaviour)so that you can work to over come them. I would say that a lot is expected of very young children in the British educational system and the formality - even in an informal Reception type environment is a lot to cope with for a little boy - particularly one who may be very distracted by noise. I'd let the school observe him, accept any help they offer, don't let them palm it off as your problem (they may try and do this), and if the observer does flag up a possible diagnosis get it ratified by a good quality ED psych or Paed ASAP.

All the best.

[cantputfingeron]

thanks Flyingmum - your words are quite reassuring

by the way I found a test for dysphraxia on the internet and ds scored high, but that's because he still has trouble with:

• Tying shoe laces
• riding a bike
• doing undoing buttons
• writing neatly and tidy with no effort
• catching a ball

which I believe are all linked to the fact that he is only 4.6.

Meeting with teacher tomorrow and dreading it, I don't want to sound like a mother in denial but I know I will end up defending ds's behaviour...just because I think we should give him a bit of time to grow up and out of the silly behaviour and shyness he has now - which I call childhood.

[twocutedarlings]

Hi,

Just go with flow at tomorrows meeting, by all mean defend your son if you think they are wrong in anyway, after all you know him better then anyone.

Good luck i hope it all go's well

[ALMummy]

Cantputafingeron, Just wondering how it went for you and DS today.

[ALMummy]

Cantputafingeron, Just wondering how it went for you and DS today.

After our meeting on Monday we brought our form requesting an Ed Psych assessment home and filled it in immediately, returning it the next day. Today is Thursday and his teacher has still not done her section and sent the form. Obviously we want to read what she writes about DS before it goes off, just want to get on with it really.