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Hmm advice needed before 3pm if poss.

(27 Posts)
mummy2aaron Tue 18-Sep-07 12:55:40

DS2 had his first full day at school yesterday, he has previously done 1 week of mornings and 1 week of afternoons. He was fine in the morning, in fact he has had no problems so far at all. Then came lunchtime, no structure, and it all went sour, he swivelled on his seat and ran around. He ate a bit of food then went to play. Apparently in the afternoon he was very tired and in the word of the Head 'a nightmare'. She did stress he wasnt the only one who was tired but i didn't see her talk to any other parents. I think she wants to sort it out with ds2 asap because once something becomes routine with him thats it. I think she is giving his a little more attention anyway because of his autism. The CLASS team wont come in and support they will only advise and they do not have the staff to keep someone with him to keep him in order. I think she wants him to come home in the afternoons after lunch, so they can work on that, once he is settled in a lunchtime routine work on the afternoons. Do I agree? I really want this to work and keep the Head on side but more importantly I need ds2 to settle. I want to know if any of you have any suggestions. TIA.

dustystar Tue 18-Sep-07 12:57:02

How old is he?

Does he have a statement?

mummy2aaron Tue 18-Sep-07 12:59:15

Hiya Dustystar, he is 4.5 and a statement was refused which we did expect.

dustystar Tue 18-Sep-07 13:01:01

On what grounds was it refused? If the school are struggling to keep him in for the whole day it certainly sounds like he could do with one.

On the other hand it won't hurt for him to just do 1/2 days for a while until he gets used to being in school.

mummy2aaron Tue 18-Sep-07 13:04:59

They thought school action plus(?) was enough support for him which is obv a load of rubbish because now they say they will only advise not support.

I don't mind half days for now but I have to be sure it isnt for long and they are not just using the easy option iyswim. I want them to work on it not just remove the problem by sending him home.

mummy2aaron Tue 18-Sep-07 13:09:53

Would it not be better to remove him at lunchtime and take him back for the afternoon?

dustystar Tue 18-Sep-07 13:14:09

I think that might be worse given that he fixes on routines.

Perhaps you should dig your heels in and push for him to stay all day. it will mean that he is disruptive but it may force the school to take action about his level of support.

dustystar Tue 18-Sep-07 13:14:59

if he has only just started school how could they know that school action plus would be enough for him? Sounds like a review is needed asap.

mummy2aaron Tue 18-Sep-07 13:17:41

ok thanks i will push for a review then asap. i honestly think this is just teething trouble and with patience could be sorted quite quickly as long as the school is comitted to working on it iyswim.

ZipadiSuzy Tue 18-Sep-07 13:20:18

Any 4.5 yo child with sp is far too young to be staying at school all day without assistance, he is entitled to assistance the whole day, if not I'd take him out for the afternoons till after christmas or when he is 5, but consistency is the keypoint here and he needs that stable routine.

Good luck

dustystar Tue 18-Sep-07 13:22:16

I know exactly what you mean. DS first school were worse than useless - his current school are fab. Mind you he does have a statement now which obviously helps a lot but I know that they would still have been a good school for him even without the extra funding from the LEA.

It is better to try and work with the school but don't be fobbed off. If ds isn't getting the support he needs you will need to push them. It might not make you popular but its worth it to ensure ds gets the help he needs.

Atillathemeerkat is good with this stuff so i'm sure she will give you some good advice later.

AttilaTheMeerkat Tue 18-Sep-07 13:27:01

Hi mummy2aaron,

Why was the statement refused?. Did you appeal their crass decision?.

School action plus will fall short for him and continue to do so because it will not provide the support he needs to cope with a full day of school. There will be no one to one for a start, very few hours will be given and most importantly it is not legally binding. The school don't have to stick to it. It may help the school if a Statement for your DS was in place because they will be given more funding to help your son. Also as he goes through the school system it could very well get harder for him on all sorts of levels if he is not supported.

The best thing you can do for your son is reapply for the Statement yourself and appeal their decision in the event the LEA again refuse. You can yourself write to the LEA asking for your son to be assessed.

If this continues as it is it will help no-one least of all your son because his needs are not being met. Worst case scenario here is that he could end up permanently excluded.

Hassled Tue 18-Sep-07 13:27:51

Agree re having another go at the Statement - if you had one, you could get a LSA (Learning Support Assistant) who would give the 1 to 1 he clearly needs. The problem is that while taking him home in the afternoons is fine while he's 4.5, it isn't a long-term solution. I'm gobsmacked that a decision can be made that School Action Plus is enough before a child has even started school - and IME School Action Plus isn't worth jack. It seems that in some Authorities at least Statements are more successful if applied for by the school or another agency rather than the parents - can you talk to the Head about this?

AttilaTheMeerkat Tue 18-Sep-07 13:34:01

In this area at least (South Essex) parents are in a far better position than schools are with regards to applying for a Statement. This is because parents have the right of appeal and schools do not. In my local area one junior school has applied several times for statements; not one of these applications has got through. Also another thing to note is that these children are 7/8 when these documents are applied for; it needs to be done far earlier.

I personally would not let a school anywhere near a Statement application for the reason as well that if you apply for it you know its been done.

If writing to the LEA you need to give them six weeks to reply; mark that date on the calendar.

IPSEA are very good, do get them on side and their website is also worth looking at:-

mummy2aaron Tue 18-Sep-07 13:35:42

Thanks for your help. I hope Atillathemeerkat sees this then.

AttilaTheMeerkat Tue 18-Sep-07 13:41:56

Have already posted smile.

Hope you get this sorted with the school but you're going to have to develop a hard shell to deal with the LEA. I would also advise meeting with them.

mummy2aaron Tue 18-Sep-07 13:42:48

wow that was quick. i will appeal the decision, it only came back in the holidays. i used the ipsea letter to apply for it. the ed psych sent in a copy of a very old report about jack, they hadnt seen him for ages. He is fine in the stuctured environment of the classroom and if he had some lunchtime supervision he wouldnt go crazy and be so knackered in the afternoon that he plays up. I am sat here with the phone on my knee expecting them to ring for me to go and get him. i have just spoken to jack's nursery teacher who has said until something can be sorted (ie him settling or support in school) she is willing to go and supervise him on a voluntary basis for the lunchtime period.

mummy2aaron Tue 18-Sep-07 13:43:49

do you think it's worth me contacting parent parnership because i feel a little lost. the head makes me feel intimidated.

ShinyHappySchmooo Tue 18-Sep-07 13:47:13

If he has been refused a statement then you could suggest the school ask for a Statutory Assessment which would enable the school to get a funded lunchtime helper.

AttilaTheMeerkat Tue 18-Sep-07 13:50:26

Did not use Parent Partnership myself so cannot comment. Probably worth a go, you need support but you ideally need to speak to IPSEA (they're the best ones with regards to all this as they are independent).

If the Head makes you feel intimidated (know how that feels) can you get someone else to go with you to meetings; your man ideally but if this is not possible an understanding family member.

Hassled Tue 18-Sep-07 13:51:25

Yes, contact Parent Partnership - they helped me a great deal.
Interesting re Meerkat's thoughts re whether it's more effective for the school or the parent to apply - her experiences go against everything I was told to expect here (Norfolk). Wouldn't it be nice if everything was consistent?

AttilaTheMeerkat Tue 18-Sep-07 13:58:43

Here's another thing for you to consider mummy2aaron:-

If the Headteacher is willing, you could ask him or her to write a letter which supports your parental request for a re-assessment. The more evidence you have supporting a statement application the better. Once the LEA agree to a statutory assessment then they will ask for reports from all the various professionals your son sees.

It is possible to have a fully supported statement (25 hours a week) with one to one at lunchtime but the lunchtime support may be harder to get overall.

mummy2aaron Tue 18-Sep-07 14:01:36

Nothing is consistant lol the level of support we received from dx to end of Nursery was excellent, now nothing!

I'll see what she says at hometime, if we make it that far lol, although i am encouraged by the fact it is 2pm and they have not called me - if things are bad at least they are trying. I will then speak to ipsea and ask their advice.

tibni Tue 18-Sep-07 14:08:18

Hi, With external SEN support it is quite usual for the agencies to act only in an advisory role. My son has a statement and Autism outreach and ed psy observations are used to ensure that he is getting the best possible inclusion on a normal day to day basis.

If the nursery teacher did support over lunch and it helps your son then it would be a good basis for arguing that he needs support in unstructured times.

If your son is on School Action + it would be worth talking to the school about what support is in place for him. Even with statements schools are expected to fund support (only in exceptional levels does AEN funding kick in). Many schools expect to fund upto about 15 hrs.

Do you have an IEP? Does the school have a behaviour plan in place to help him? All things worth enquiring about.

As far as statements go I agree the parent route tends to be the easiest. Schools are expected to monitor to see if problems will iron themselves out, then have to have a consultation period so it tends to be more drawn out.

dustystar Tue 18-Sep-07 16:03:53

I found our local parent partnership really good when things kicked off with ds 2 years ago but in hindsight they didn't really do anything constructive other than be supportive and help with the wording on a couple of forms. They are supposed to be independant but they are funded out of the LEA budget and in our borough share the same offices so I can't help thinking there could be some conflict of interesthmm

Both school and I requested an assessment from lEA at the same time so i'm not sure whose request the LEA acted on - there was certainly plenty of information from both of us in the evidence. I agree with Meerkat that IPSEA are the ones to speak to.

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