Assaulted by ds again...do you have any advice please?

[Chocol8]

This morning and this evening I have been what I can only describe as assaulted by my ds.

He basically ran rings round me - karate kicking me, spitting, screaming, biting, punching, scratching etc etc. The scarey thing this time is that he actually attacked me - running head on to hurt me with blows and kicks - at one point I could bearly stand up. Although I was strangely calm, I was physically shaking. He trashed his bed and various bits of furniture in his room (two of which are metal and he has bent them out of shape) and kept screaming "I don't need you anymore", over and over.

After 20 minutes or so, he went quiet and I picked up his bedding from the stairs to go and see him. He was lying curled up and although not crying was very upset. He told me to "just go" and I picked him up and cradled him whilst he kept repeating it over again. I held him and hugged him while we both cried and then we talked.

He said he couldn't remember what had made him so angry in the first place. I asked him about his day (he went to the childminders and then his Grandad's for tea) and he said it had been good.

I have never seen him this extreme before and I will admit it - it scared me stupid. He is too strong for me to restrain now, so what else can I do? He does have a Play Therapy session tomorrow and the psychologist has asked me not to medicate him with Ritalin for it - could be interesting. I don't really see eye to eye with the psychologist as he thinks it is ok to talk about his bad behaviour in front of him, which I definitely don't like. His self esteem is low as it is and I feel that by raking over it again, just reminds him of it again. Any advice would be welcome. x

[discoinferno]

All I can give you are hugs and lots of them.

[lou33]

You can't put yourself through this Choccy, have you thought about seeing the paed or gp and asking them to refere you for respite care, and anythign else that might be of help to you? It must be dreadful for you, I'm sorry I have nothing more useful to say.

[coppertop]

I don't really have anything useful to add but just wanted to send you a hug. Do you think it would help if his medication was increased?

[anniebear]

Sorry, have no advice

Just wanted to reply and say poor you! It must be extremly hard for you.

How old is your son? I am new here so don't know much about anyone!!!

[heartinthecountry]

hugs to you too chocol8 {{ {}}}. must be so hard.

I don't really have any advice but one thing I would ask is, do you feel comfortable about not medicating your ds tomorrow for the therapy session? because if you don't, you don't have to. You know your ds best. I understand that the psychologist wants to see what he is like off it, but at the end of the day he doesn't have to live with the consequences. And I think you should tell him you don't wish to discuss your ds's behaviour in front of him. Or at least ask him what he hopes to gain from this. I know it is really easy for me to suggest these things and far harder to do them but he is your son and professionals do not always know best.

[Chocol8]

Anniebear - I just replied to your post. My ds is 7 next month and is ADHD and Asperger's. He self harms (when he is not harming me) and does similar to your dd by hitting himself in the face and banging his head against floors etc. I can only take him out of the house if he has been medicated.

I think I will have to bite the bullet and try and find out who my HV is and maybe call his Consultant for some advice. There is no support from his GP - he has cocked up his last 2 Ritalin prescriptions - and I am fighting for DLA. I am running out of energy rapidly and am finding that I am less able to cope with his behaviour almost daily. I just realised that my neck and back hurt from his attack. I'm ready for bed - I don't really want to think anymore.

[dottee]

Aw Chock, really feeling for you .

Just had my second assessment by Social Services today and some interesting stuff has come out of it. I'll drop you a line.

I'll also start a thread on here about it if I get chance. Is it this weekend you've got him all the time?

[dottee]

Just reading the thread. Yes, go to the GP. The GP will make a note on your file you're a carer and ask for a referal to Social Services (like I did a couple of months ago). This will open the door to future respite care - via assessments in the meantime.

[Davros]

Choc, definitely think you should see your Paed/Consultant. I know this is my new discovery, but have you considered trying Risperidone instead of Ritalin? It has worked wonders for my DS who became very anxious, aggressive etc. If not Risperidone there might be other meds out there that would help as there are always new ones coming out. Otherwise just hope you can get that bloody DLA and DO, DO, DO get onto Soc Svs (another of my latest discoveries!).

[dottee]

How are you today? x

[Eulalia]

Can't give any advice I am afraid but I know you must hurt bad as my 5 year old can give me quite a wallop.

It seems that you do have a good relationship with your son when he is calm which is a good sign. Hope you get something sorted soon.

[Chocol8]

Thanks for all the info guys - and thanks Dottee - I took myself off to bed last night after he had falled asleep - I was completely (for want of a better word) f**d! I then overslept an hour this morning and was late for work! Arrghhhh!

Was kinda disorientated this morning and not great first thing, but have managed to get through the day ok. Ds was bright as a button this morning, though tired.

We went to Play Therapy this evening and he had a great time (though the Ritalin hadn't really had a chance to wear off from lunchtime properly) and he was actually well behaved, just excitable. I managed to talk to the psychologist when ds was in the loo and told him briefly about what had happened last night and he said we would get our heads together and think of strategies to help with it (at LAST!!!) at our next appointment where ds will not be present. Also, he said he would get an appointment with a psychiatrist for a full assessment.

I also contacted my HV and told her what had been happening, but because I am with a consultant and psychologist, she said that there wasn't a lot she could do. However, she did say she would speak to the psychologist if he took no notice of getting me to talk about my ds in front of him, which may be useful.

Thanks also Davros, I will certainly ask his consultant about Risperidone. He did try Concerta, but it didn't have any effect on him at all. There is another Ritalin called Ritalin SR - does anyone know what the difference is? x

[Fio2]

oh Chocol* no advice but a big hug from me {{{{{{{}}}}}} even if it is virtual

[hmb]

Ritalin SR will be a slow release form of the same drug. When you take a drug, any drug, the levels in your blood rise. The levels fall as your body clears it from your system. By the time you take another tablet of the same drug levels will have fallen quite a lot. So if you take , say 4 ibuprofen tablets you will get 4 peaks and four lows in the level in the blood. If this is low enough you can get a break through of symptoms.

A slow release preparation releases the drug little by little, often by putting the active drug in a hard gel that takes time to be digested. So you get more constant levels of the drug with no big peaks and troughs. With ritalin this might be helpful as there will be less time when the child is 'under' dosed and you get break through of the symptoms.

HTH

[Chocol8]

Thanks Fio - virtual or otherwise are good to me. HMB - thanks for that, it may be worth asking about this as well, it sounds a lot better.

I just told him he wasn't having a snack before his tea and he went ape again...trying to hurt me. He held onto my leg and then turned around and kicked me in the crutch saying "I hope that hurt your ball". He was telling me at our appointment that we all have a ball under our tummies by our willys. I explained that Mummys and Ladies don't have a willy and so no ball, but it didn't go in obviously.

I really hope he's not winding up for another serving of last night's behaviour.

[Davros]

Definitely worth keeping an eye on developments in meds, I get most of my info from a USA Egroup where things seem to happen first.
Another idea, which you might think is really stupid, have you tried anything like aromatherapy massage or yoga? I'm not a big alternative therapy fan and think most of its mumbo jumbo but something like this can have benefits in many ways. Learning to relax or "be calm" and allowing someone to touch you when the child isn't upset or freaking means they can understand being told to be calm etc when they are. Cranial osteophathy may help too, rubbish for my DS who, I think, is too severe, but he learnt a lot about how to behave in such situations which had some knock on effects and benefits for things like the dentist and hairdresser!

[Chocol8]

Thanks Davros - strangely we were due to go to a Yoga Day tomorrow. His behaviour has kicked off again big time, he is upstairs trashing his bedroom and throwing things down the stairs....arghhhh!

[Chocol8]

Thanks Dinosaur! Nice to know I am being thought of. Sadly his behaviour has not been too good more lately, he had a strop in Milton Keynes, and up until then he'd been really lovely. He refused to hold my hand and was all crossed arms and angry eyebrows and kept walking away. Mind you, I am pretty sure that I have found out where the karate kicks have come from - his childminder's little boy (who is 2) apparently kicks like this and I have a feeling that he's copying him. Just an idea, but if this sort of behaviour continues tomorrow night, I will know for certain.

This was a complete contrast to yesterday when I was suffering big time with my heart. He was trying to move my legs for me because they felt really heavy but when I sat down and my sister took him into a shop, he was looking back and saying "I ought to go and look after my mummy". Bless him - it's all or nothing - nice or nasty - Jeckyl or Hyde and it can get very tiring not knowing from one minute to the next what it's going to be.

He was up til 10.15 even having taken his Melatonin and then woke up at 12.45 for quite a while shouting and crying that he was hungry! We're both knackered!

I have at last finished my letter to the DLA (hooray!!!) to give "evidence" of my son's behaviour and it is now 3 and a half pages long plus loads of copies of reports and letters and some photos too. It has taken me nearly 2 weeks to finish it - and it is a work of art thanks to MN and Dottee.

Thanks for thinking of me. x

[Jollymum]

They haven't got a sympathy emoticon yet, but I would send you one if they had. I'll send a big instead and much love.XXX

[Piffleoffagus]

choc, no decent advice except for keep asking for the help and care you need and deserve.
Huge hugs though, it must be such a difficult time for you
hugs xxxxxxxxxxx

[Chocol8]

I'm sorry to go on about this again....sadly, I have to take back what I said yesterday...my ds had another "tantrum" - though this is really too small a word for what happened. He trashed his bedroom again and threw all the ironing at the top of the stairs down it, along with lego, rugs, trains, puzzles and games aimed at me. I twice tried in vain to restrain him, (without eye contact) but he is a tall lad and it means you have to be a bit of a contortionist to manage it - which I'm not.

I got bitten and spat at a few times, but nothing too serious, but I have a feeling that he will wake up with sore wrists where I tried to restrain him. I feel so awful. I am at a complete loss as to know what to do when he blows.
I let him get on with it for quite a while - the whole thing lasted about an hour and a quarter, and he kept shouting that he couldn't love me anymore. The last of his tea went in the bin after many warnings.

Later when he'd calmed down, I went to see him and he started crying and said he didn't want to apologise, but as I walked out of his room he said sorry. Then he said that he did a "sad thing" when he was angry - ages ago I bought some pens that write on glass and had drawn a big heart and put his name and "I love you and ALWAYS will. Love Mummy" - he'd rubbed off the heart but later regretted it. I said we'd draw it back together tomorrow. What do I do with him when he is like this - does anyone have any ideas? I feel that I must have tried everything by now and even though he is in play therapy, he is worse than when he started!

My Dad asked what kind of help I would be looking at if it was offered, but I don't know. I am not sure respite is really the answer, I don't know if it would work even, what else is available? Has anyone else got experience of a 6yo ADHD/AS with a temper?

[jmb1964]

So sorry to hear this - our ds1 has Apsergers and is nearly 7 now. He doesn't 'blow' very often these days, but a year ago we had the same kind of things happening. In our case, he seems to have gained some more insight into what is going on (with the help of a psychologist), and is learning how to take himself away and be on his own when he begins to get angry. Music (with or without headphones) has been an enormous help - he loves Elvis and will listen to the same tracks again and again, with a soothing effect I think.
Are you getting anywhere with the DLA appeal? If you do succeed (and it sounds like you really should - we get it, and our ds only has the one diagnosis), maybe you could buy in some extra help? Do you have access to holiday playschemes at all? Ours, run by the local autistic society, has been a godsend.
Sorry to pick this up so late, but really feel for you - hope today has just been a backwards blip?
It's so hard not to be wounded by the 'I don't love you any more' line, isn't it? I can never go to bed until there has been some kind of resolution. I think ds1 has learnt how to say the right thing in his sleep by now!

[jmb1964]

Aaaagh - just read your post from Sunday. You won't have heard about the DLA quite yet - sorry..

[Jimjams]

NO advice but much sympathy - we are having a bit of the same at the moment (when ds1 is under stress). Spent half a ferry journey having to manhandle him to prevent others getting hurt (he wanted to go into the shop through the exit- the entrance wasn't suitable for some reason). Completely lost it (him not me although I felt like it) started trying to attack passers by and me of course. All this was taking place next to someone about the same stage of pregnancy as me- she was sitting serenely rubbing her bump, I was desperately trying to stop mine being headbutted. DH emerged from the holiday absolutely scratched to pieces. His face has begun to heal now but he looked as if he had been in a brawl, even had blood all over his shirt. Of course this was all taking place in full veiw of perfect families. One dad, sat with his 2 perfect NT boys even had the cheek to tut and shake his head. If I hadn't been putting sall my energy into restraining ds1 then I would have quite merrily punched him. The behaviour did not look remotely normal- especially as ds1 kept [unching himself (hard) as well.

This extreme behaviour arises because of stress in ds1's case. We do have incidents like this several times a week in a normal week, but not as intense or angry. He's still very uptight since getting back from holiday, but I do know that when he returns to school he will settle and calm down again a bit. Is your son worse or better during school terms?

Also if this sort of behaviour is continual then I would agree with Davros about considering different medication. Temple Grandin's book "thinking in pictures" has a very interesting chapter on the different medications. It's in a lot of libraries- may be worth a browse before seeing a paed?