Autism and Violence

[RocknRolla]

I am at total breaking point with Dd5 she was diagnosed with high functioning autism in December but she is so violent, have just managed to get her to sleep after trying since 8pm. Since half term I have had to pick her up from school 14 times because of the violence which is usually unprovoked. She has attacked other children her 1-2-1 and her teachers.
Not sure what to do as she has been discharged from the autism team took her back to the gp who said that it was just part of autism and I just had to accept it ☹️. Have tried reward charts, removing privileges and time outs and nothing has worked.
Has anyone got any advice on what to do please.

[Sirzy]

Firstly it is highly unlikely to be unprovoked, School may not be aware of what has triggered it yet but that isn’t the same as it being unprovoked. They need to watch closely to find out what is coming before the outbursts and keep detailed records so patterns can be found.

Is it more of a problem at school or in both settings?

I would ask School to bring in an ed psych to observe and give suggestions

[RocknRolla]

I have asked the school what is happening before hand but they have said that there is no particular pattern and it’s like she just loses control. She went in one morning and just started hitting her teacher with her boots. The problem is she can’t tell you why she just says she doesn’t know and gets upset.

It is definitely more a problem at school she does have SPD as well and I don’t know if that’s what could be triggering it at school.

Ed psych have been out and have said the best thing to do is remove her from the situation and try to calm her down but that isn’t working and that’s why they are having to call me.

[rosalux]

I have no advice but am going through the same thing with DS1 who is in Y2. Since his ASD trained 1:1 left a week and a half ago he's been in class for a total of one day and is currently at home on a 2-day exclusion after hitting his teacher and running out of school. It's just getting worse and worse. We are in EHCP assessment process and I think I'll be pushing for Indy special school as he just can't cope in MS.

[RocknRolla]

I know rosalux I am going to push for a special school as she just can’t cope. She hasn’t settled at school at all and the more she gets sent home the worse it is getting.
I have a meeting with the school tomorrow morning, as today she they had to take all the other kids out of the classroom as she was throwing stuff everywhere 😟.

[Blossom4538]

I was going to suggest poss sensory issues when I then read she has spd. My Dd cannot tolerate certain noises, or even the way people look at her sometimes.

Bless her. Does she do full days? Can she do reduced timetable at all or Home Ed until SN school.

Is she aggressive at home? Dd isn’t at school, but is at home!!

[JHKLHZHARH]

I completely get where your at, my Dd (8yo)has been like this for months now, we are struggling to know what to do with her she is lashing out at everyone and everything. Since the February half term she has been picked up I don't know how many times because her new 1:1 "can't control her" (or that's what I get told. In school She has ripped books, torn displays, hit kicked and bit her teacher and 1:1 she has soiled her self on many occasions, she hasn't hit any other children yet (which I'm thankful for)
At home we are getting the same aggressive behaviour and just last night she smeared feaces all over her room.
Dh and I are at our wits end, we also have a 3yo and a 10 day old baby and it's getting to much

[RocknRolla]

It’s so difficult because there doesn’t seem to be any reason, today she threw her chair across the room at school today, thankfully she didn’t hit anyone. When I spoke to the school they said she was sitting doing her work and just threw it. When I asked her why she done it she just says don’t know.
I am thinking of home educating her as I don’t feel She is ready for the school environment. She is getting more aggressive at home but she is no where near as bad at home as what she is in school.
I have made an appointment with the gp but it isn’t until the 23rd April.

[JHKLHZHARH]

Home education sounds good now but think about long term, can you do it long term?
My daughter is 8 but this is a new thing for her, (since September) and its getting worse. She is lashing at me and her dad constantly, when I picked her up today I got punched in the stomach (I had a Elective section 10 days ago)

[RocknRolla]

It would just be short term until a space becomes available in a special school. I have been sacked from my job because of all the times I have had to leave early to pick her up. Tonight when I was talking to her she says she hates school as everyone says she is naughty and won’t talk her. When I was picking her up today another girl was handing out party invites and she was the only child in the whole class that didn’t get, this is the second time that this has happened. I have asked for a meeting with the SENCO as getting left out and called naughty all the time is having a massive effect on her. She has smashed her TV tonight and I think it’s her letting her frustration out because she can’t verbalise it.

[RocknRolla]

JHKLHZHARH My dd has also only been violent since September before that she was very rarely violent. I am really hoping that it is just a faze that she will grow out of but it seems to be getting worse rather than better.

[Nettleskeins]

it is possibly anxiety.
Home ed worked for us, and a reduced timetable when he was five and in school. We home edded when he was older.
Does your school have a nurture room? (ours did lots of therapeutic activities which stopped violence erupting)
Ds longed to be included (and was) but found trying to fit in very very hard, would erupt in the playground when he felt children were not playing with him, or not playing by his rules. Later manifestation of anxiety (he was alright just about up until year 3), but could this apply to your little one? I would do positive interventions rather than time outs or consequences. Stickers and rewards did not work with ds, but removing the things that made him anxious (uncertainty/noise/free play/work demands) did. He is doing GSCES in mainstream now, and fantastic, no violence, hss friends, sporty, intellectual..very very polite.

Ds also found school work hard, although he was interested. Frustration also casuses anger.

[snowdaze10]

Nettleskeins - sorry to hijack the thread but just curious as to your timeline with your son as it sounds very similar to us currently. Ds is year 2 and now not coping in similar ways - violence erupting when unable to get his own way on the playground or in class, lots of anxieties presenting as violence. Wants to be social but keeps getting it all wrong. He's on a very reduced timetable and just coping and feeling slightly better in himself. It's looking like our only option is homeschooling him really. But not forever...just until he's ready to go back.

What age did your son come out of school and then go back in? How did you know it was the right time and did he need support to get to that point? What did you do in the interim to help him move forward? Did he cope socially out of school in different environments?

Sorry for all the questions but it's so rare to see someone who has gone into the dark and come out the other side with a positive outcome so to hear your story would be amazing!

[Nettleskeins]

Snowdaze ds only started to go haywire in Year 3, and only had a diagnosis of HFA by the end of Year 4. After that the school supported him very well. However, due to their support and reduced demands, and no EHCP he was struggling academically by the beginning of Year 7. In Year 7 the school was v supportive, but he was making no academic progress (could hardly write at all) increasingly anxious about demands of homework and socialising, travelling to school on the bus etc. In short he did not show any of the independence that you would start to expect of a Year 7 child, and as he had no EHCP we could not get him into a school with the correct provision.
I'm sure if he had had an EHCP earlier, his secondary would have been able to support him better (they tried their absolute best, clubs, drama group, encouraging, typing class) But as it was, he just did not seem to be able to manage, and I felt disillusioned with the help that a school could apparently offer.

We home edded him for two years, his social skills and anxiety massively improved, he spent a lot of time outside playing sport in structured activities, meeting people in small bursts and more time working on individual goals re: academic stuff/dyslexia. We also organised an EHCP, then at the end of Year 9 he went back to a school which was on our doorstep and offered more help for SEN students, who were academically able.

Home edding is a vast baggy monster, it can be different things for different people, for us it was chance to tailor the curriculum and get him meeting people away from peer pressure (mixed age groups in home ed is one of the nicest aspects of socialising) He still has friends in the community. However, he likes school and he likes rules and challenges so now that his anxiety is reduced he fits in very well, and is an exemplary student, although still has autism, I hasten to add.

[Nettleskeins]

tbh I wish I had home edded him a lot earlier. However, my other children were at school, and it takes a big leap to just home educate one child, as it is very much a way of life. School has always been a lovely community of people for us too, but I just don't think that a large classroom was necessarily the best way for him to learn social skills or academic skills. Certainly between 7 and 11 he was at his worst. Extremely frustrated, very controlling and his siblings suffered from this too.

[snowdaze10]

Nettleskeins - thank you for your story. I'm so pleased things worked out. It really gives up hope for the future. Our only community is through school so it feels very scary to consider losing that. Big decisions.

[Nettleskeins]

one of the issues for us was that over time my "friends" from school never included ds in playdates. We would still meet for coffee and drinks and my other child was invited but despite the community, ds did not have any friends - playground issues continued out of school. Whereas in home ed it was a lot more inclusive, and ds was positively welcomed, possibly because the other kids saw him in small doses! And he behaved better so they liked playing with him..

[snowdaze10]

Yes, we don't get included in anything. Actually I think people are actively avoiding us! I'm a bit worried we'll end up housebound and excluded from everything everywhere if we home ed. That, and I have a job......

[vickibee]

I had similar with my son who is now 11 and vastly improved since his needs have been met by school. he is very black and white and if he felt others weren't following his ideas of what the rules are. School have now assigned a key worker, a quiet space and an online blog all of which helps with keeping him calm.

[RocknRolla]

Think I am going to need to go down the home education route as the school is refusing a reduced timetable. Hopefully this will help her as the school aren’t been to helpful and won’t listen to any of my suggestions.

[snowdaze10]

The way it was explained to me is that think of an internal bucket that fills with all the stressors (for us it's sensory, academic, noise, social interaction breakdown, anxiety etc)and at school that bucket is brimming the minute he walks through the door so any number of things could cause the bucket to overspill (and explode!). What needs to happen is reduction of all the stressors to allow that bucket to be kept lower (never empty, just manageable). This is what we see at home. Much less stressors and that bucket almost never overfills. School have tried to achieve the same but seem to end up making it worse.....

[RocknRolla]

That’s a really good way of thinking of it and exactly what is happening. It’s little things like the school won’t allow her sunglasses as apparently they are a health and safety risk, they also won’t allow her to have her stress ball as apparently it distracts her. It’s like the stuff that works the school won’t allow but they want to try doing things there way and they are just stressing her out.

[Nettleskeins]

Rocknrolla before you home educate I would suggest that you email them with your suggestions to reduce her stress/violent reactions to stress and get in writing that they are unable to make reasonable adaptations. If you are considering making an EHCP application, this would be one of the pieces of evidence, in writing that she needs extra support. For a start, other posters might point out that by asking you to pick her up 14 times they are in effect excluding her, which is illegal without some written confirmation to that effect. Again, this evidence that she is being sent home early is proof that she has needs that the school cannot provide for, which is important if you are asking for an EHCP. Even if she is home educated it is worth trying to push for an EHCP in case your plans change at a later date.
Don't tell school you are considering home education, you need them to increase their support, or lay down a paper trail of some sort which would enable her to possibly access a different more suitable placement, even if you do not wish ultimately to take that up. It won't affect your right to home educate.
I suspect the school have asked you to go back to the GP because they want the GP to access further support, because they are not sure how to do it, in which case you need to get that in writing too, and take it to the GP. Does the school want the GP to refer her to additional support services, what do they have in mind? CAMHS, parenting classes for autistic children what exactly? You are being sent round in circles. The GP is right to say that getting stressed is part and parcel of autism and in a sense he can do nothing specific (ie medication at this age wouldn't be appropriate), but is that because he assumes the school should have strategies to reduce the stress and that they should be working? If they aren't working we are back to the argument that the school have tried everything and cannot support her without further funds, hence need for an EHCP.