Passivity and ASD?

[PeachyClair]

Does anyone know at what age the pasivcvity tends tor educe?

DS3 is extremely passive, a lot of this we know is because he doesnt connect enough to become agitated by much- but I know passivity tends to pass. I am just not sure when!

Thanks

[onlyjoking9329]

i would say 3/4 was about it for my three, think it linked into them using more speech/ understanding/awareness

[PeachyClair]

That would make sense then, DS3 doesn't use much speech- though he said More! today at dinner which is a fab breakthrough! (he's 4 in July btw).

[onlyjoking9329]

good talking, my lots first words were always needs led! chocolate, juice and milk were first words, mum came much later!

[sphil]

DS2 is very passive but is becoming less so as he gets older. As he becomes more connected with us and his environment he also stims more and is more agitated by noise. Still very flexible and easy going though! His speech is also improving so there may be a link. He was 4 in October.

[Jimjams2]

DS1 was very passive until he was about 4. The change wasn't linked to speech/language with him (was still non-existent and still is!) but came about when he realised that he could have an opinion. I think he also became far more compulsive- tbh that remains his biggest problem. Far more than not being able to speak.

[PeachyClair]

I think obsessions are his biggest trait apart from the passivity atm- and the language obv! He is very routine based, but because its half term its not so obvious, and his CM has an ASD child herself, the routine is manageable day to day. He's very posesive of me though- if DH cuddles me, or the boys touch me, then !!!!

Been trying to find a teaching method we can get him to respond to- managed to get him to give his name in response to request (sort of- pronunciation off), but Nursery need him to know boy or girl and can't get anything to 'stick' at the moment, did get him to recite lists of people he knew but that went yesterday after sticking for a few days- thats usually the way!

[Jimjams2]

Why do nursery need him to know boy or girl?

We taught ds1 gender using ABA. I think for limited language ABA is the only teaching method that works tbh. Especially if imitation is ropey.

[Davros]

I know some extremely passive "children" with ASD who are 10+. DS is not one of them!

[PeachyClair]

They will say girls go in the crafta rea, boys outside- it seems to be how they work, its a large class (29) that needs splitting up a lot.

Lots of people recommend ABA to us, but its back to the funding thing, paed wanted to get someone in to work with us doing portage etc but you need a written, rather than verbal, dx for that here, and as no salt = no dx...... well yu can see how they make up their funding deficit can't you!

AFASIC suggested Makaton, but Pec's seem more likely to work from what I see.

[Jimjams2]

ha ha. That's true. When ds1 went to a birthday party at soft play a year ago (shudder), some of his classmates (aged 7/8) were very passive. If their mums dads sat themm down they would stay there. Ds1 was definitely not one of them!

[PeachyClair]

Ah no see he wont do that LOL_ LOL at memories of nursery staff chasing him round as we collected him!! Its more he's never angry or anything, or upset- just passive. Only thing that gets to him is people touching me. Injuries etc- they dont make him bat an eyelid.

[Jimjams2]

Oh god- but there's loads involved in understanding that a) the gender thing b) that he has a gender himself, c) following the instruction- that it applies to him. Ds1 wouldn't get something like that now. Why can't nursery just use him name and talk to him direct. If his language is limited then expecting him to understand that seems very optomistic.

[PeachyClair]

I know, its just waht they asked us to do, seems a bizarre preference but- ! He doesnt respond to his name regularly tbh- maybe 3 or 4 times out of 10 times called.

One of the words they gave us to say is hot- all very well, he can now say it on occasion,, but he'll still try to put his finger in the grill because repeating a word and getting the concept is hugely different- actually he touched a very warm oven door today, went Ow (not enough to burn) then put it straight back- there is NO concept of much there, if you can see what I mean. Trains, DVD's, eating- that's it. He's quite- erm- basic.

Nursery are doing his best tbh, they just don't know how to approach it. That's why I'm home ed'ing reception if we don't get the written x- MS isn't ythe place for him, communication impaired or ASD I willa ccept, MS no.

[Jimjams2]

Not responding to name is pretty normal though, ds1 often doesn't. He very rarely comes if I call, but again you can teach that with ABA. Are they telling him what to do when they call his name. EG "Ds3 come outside" "Ds3 sit on seat". Ds1 will respond to that type of thing now, but not just a name.

Is anyone getting PECS training there?

[PeachyClair]

No, no PEC's training- all that ahs to be recommended by the non-existent SALT. I have to arrange it myself if I want it, the SALT is not being replaced so thats it really! The behavioural advisory teacher says he's OK in the nursery, but his baseline assessment puts him at 12 - 18 months except in a few key, puzzle related areas, and physically. But they will not intervene, bar a list of words to teach every fortnight, until SALT.

Bit of a circle!

He's seeingt he BIBIC salt in June, and having an observational with my friends who used to work at Exeter Hospital CDC(Still does but on sick leave actually),so should start moving now I hope. Really that we're having to sort all this ourselves though.

[Jimjams2]

We had the same problem- didn't get a pecs trained SALT in pre-school years. hopeless really. Ds1's nursery owner got trained though so that helped.

[PeachyClair]

DS3 attends an LEA pre-school, and although the Nursery Teacher is fab she answers to THAT head!

The optins we have given the lEA are an extra year at preschool (they say unlikely), a year at an SN preschool, a place at either of the two appropriate SN schools or full 1 - 1 at MS. Theys ay we can't even apply for a statement though (basically they'll onlya ssess if the school isn't doing what the BAT advised to support him- but BAT wouldn't make any SALT or relevant recommendations, so nurserya ren't failing as such- theya re doing the few things recommended), the onlya lternative I gave them is for me to HE for 1 year, by which time DX will be inwriting.

[Jimjams2]

It's not up to them to decide whether you apply for a statement- you can apply for one anytime you like.

[coppertop]

Ds1 stopped being quite so passive when he started school but even now he is still far more passive than ds2 has ever been.

Ds2 (4yrs) still has very little idea about gender. He now knows that he is a boy but assumes that everyone else is male. Dd is always "he" and all adults are men. I'm surprised the nursery are making an issue of it for your ds3.

Ds1 still doesn't answer to his name. On average you have to say it at least 3 or 4 times before he realises he is being spoken to.

[Davros]

What ever method you use to teach, the key thing is to teach things that are functional. Just choosing something because it makes sense to us or seems a good idea is useless and some concepts are much harder than others, although they may not seem so, and some children have difficulties with different things. DS got "body parts" very easily but has always struggled with "big/little". Another girl I know with ASD has never managed "body parts" (she is 13 now). Far better to think through what is meaningful to him, what is likely to be most useful and what he is likely to pick up and then start from there.

[PeachyClair]

He can do body parts actually- colours are a no go though


we've been doing peole he knows latelya s he forgets them over half ter,m, so we have beenr eciting nursery kids and Cm kids- is that the sort of thing??

[sphil]

Peachy - DS2 used to be emotionally and sensorily (?) passive but the BIBIC sensory programme helped that a great deal. When I describe him as passive now I think I mean that he's compliant (probably more so than the average NT child his age) but can also be quite withdrawn.

[Davros]

Hi Peachy, just a quickie before I rush off to meeting with local Advocacy svs!
Teaching him the children in the nursery is exactly the right thing to do (if it is reasonably within his abilities) but not, for instance, A policeman, A doctor etc etc. You can also try something, and stick to very few just one or two of each thing at first, and then review it and see if its just too difficult or you need more and more subjects/objects iyswim.
Spil's BIBIC stuff sounds interesting, like its introducing more stimulation and getting them used to it. Higashi uses physcial exercise in a similar way, to stimulate and calm iyswim. Communication also makes a big difference to passivity although not always as it also depends on the child's personality.
So all very easy then !!!

[PeachyClair]

Thanks Davros


Ds3 booked for BIBIC in June- even they get booked up jnow

We're working on the 3 kids at the CM's, the two he likes at nurserya nd his CM- enough for now! Plus his age. Nothing much sinking in but some times better than others.