Help needed with ds - school problems poss ADHD

[MrsBagpuss]

I am a long time member but have nc for this.

I have been having a terrible time with my ds (now 13) since the age of 4. School has been an absolute nightmare, negative and unhelpful to the point where he has gone to 3 different primary schools and is now in 2nd year at secondary school and is in trouble a lot.

The problems are and always have been; hyperactivity, lack of focus, lack of social skills, no concept of others personal space/feelings, blurting out inappropriate comments, no filter etc.

I took him to a locum go at age of 4 saying I felt something wasn't right. He was incredibly hard work but an only child so I didn't have much to compare him to.

I was advised to keep a food diary and see if sugar/colours were a possible trigger. Yes, I think they were to a degree but his behaviour was always just so intense and full on I was exhausted and down beaten by the constant negative reports from nursery/school/ football club etc that I became isolated and depressed.

His father and I are married and have a good stable home life.

Private Nursery described him aged 3 as the worst child they had ever had 😡 This came out through gossip between a member of staff and a friend of the family. Nursery denied saying this, but he was often sat in isolation or on a naughty chair when we'd go to collect him.

School, primary 1 he used to take other kids 'I've been good all week' stickers on a Friday as he never ever got one.

Primary 2 started the calls home from teacher. General disruptive behaviour and inappropriate things being said.

P3 same
P4 teacher hated him and highlighted social problems, kids not wanting to sit with him or be his friend, blamed ds for his behaviour.

We moved him to another school

This school said he had limited focus and was disruptive in class but that it was fairly low level.

We moved away to another area1.5 years later

School 3. Again, disruptive in class, impulsive, shouting out answers can't sit still. Annoying other pupils.

Secondary school. Same. We have been involved with guidance teacher a lot as she has been phoning with all the behavioural issues and we have said we think there is an underlying issue and can he be assessed for ADHD. She was passive and didn't really take us on, I got the impression she just sees the 'behaviour' and not the whole history to our son.

He is now in 2nd year and things are going downhill rapidly. We have asked for a referral to EdPhsyc and it's been handled on an 'informal basis' so far i.e. She is reading over the school notes.

Since then ds has been in a multitude of trouble, is now being put out of classes for the whole period almost every day and was even excluded for 4 days for saying something inappropriate to a girl and humiliating her.

He was put back into school and rapidly the behaviour started again, he was put out of classes and I've just snapped. I've had enough!!

Why is no one helping us and why can they not see it may be a behavioural disorder???

When he was excluded we took him back to the go who I felt was very judgemental, saw a stroppy teen in front of her and assessed on the spot it was his choice to be bad and that the school will lead on any referral.

So we are going in circles, my ds is incredibly hard work and is clearly failing in school.

I emailed this concern to the school saying I wasn't happy with him being put out of so many classes on an increasingly regular basis and that it appears that the teachers are not using any strategies with him to avoid confrontation. Some of them appear to be very confrontational with him and as soon as he takes the bait he's put out.
I asked for the policies regarding excluding children from education and also the policy for removing them from classes.

The school replied in a very rude and defensive way and I was blasted for making the suggestion that their teachers were not doing their best to manage his behaviour. I did not get clarification on the policies and procedures for putting kids out the class. They simply suggested we go and face the teachers which I felt was confrontational.

How do we get the ball rolling with getting him assessed? I am ill with the stress of all this and I literally cannot take any more.

Having him as an only child, dealing with sub-fertility and a multitude of other things has taken its toll on me and tbh most days I just want to be gone. There is no support.

Please, if anyone on here can help or advise please do. It's the Scottish education system if that makes any difference.

Thank you for reading

[Allthewaves]

Have you ever took him to doctor and asked for a diagnosis via nhs?

[Squeegle]

I'm really sorry you are experiencing this. My DS is the same age as yours, he has been in a lot of trouble at school. He has recently been diagnosed with ADHD, but to be honest the school were not at all supportive, it all came from me. They just kept treating it as bad behaviour. The GP sent him for referral. You are entitled to formally request this, particularly in view of the school issues. Schools generally don't seem to be at all expert in ADHD and they don't seem to have the resources to train people. Very annoying and disheartening,

To be honest I ended up going for a private diagnosis as it was taking so long. Depends if you can afford this. Have a look on the internet and see if there is an ADHD support group local to you, or look up the national one, and ask for help. They will guide you.

It is hard work, but if you push you will get some help, I think the support groups will be helpful too, as it eases the isolation to know that you're not alone and it's not your fault. There is one on Facebook called ADHD/add support. There is a group called add-Vance which is helpful, but you need a more local one really. I'm sorry I don't know about the Scottish system . Good luck.

[Squeegle]

Sorry Facebook group is adhd/asd support group uk. It's closed but you just need to request to join.

[MrsBagpuss]

I'm just getting back and seen the replies, thank you all for reading, understanding and taking the time to reply. It means a lot to have someone, anyone hear me right now.

'GO' in my original post is a autocorrect fail for GP (doctor). I took him aged 4 for hyperactivity and again aged 13 but he could have been a million times in between.

We have private medical care through do work. The doctor we saw recently has angered me so much in that she actually suggested that it was not in any child's interest to have phsycology/phsychiatriac referrals unless it was absolutely necessary and that it could affect his future in relation to careers/jobs.
True perhaps but my only priority right now is finding out what is wrong so he can be helped and supported the right way, both at home AND school.

So, a child who is displaying disruptive behaviour which in my ds case is talking too much, loudly, being defiant, saying a word over and over again...would you say this warrants removal from the class for the ENTIRE period?
I don't.

If he was violent/ aggressive or a danger to himself or others, yes absolutely but surely not for annoying the teacher? If anyone has specific knowledge of guidelines for removing pupils from lessons please share with me, the school have dodged answering my specific request on that.

I'm so angry right now, I'm 99% certain he has ADHD/odd and has been let down.

Thank you for the support group info squeegle I will look them up now.

[Megatherium]

All the exclusions from class do suggest an inability to meet his needs. Have you got a record of how often it is happening? If not, I suggest you start keeping a record now, and get into the habit of emailing the school every time to ask why it happened and what strategies they are putting in place to keep him in class. Ultimately it could provide good evidence for getting a full EHC assessment.

[Squeegle]

I had BUPA through work and was able to get the diagnosis paid for by BUPA. My policy paid for diagnosis but not ongoing treatment. If you do find a local support group, or even the national one, they may be able to recommend a good psychologist for you. I have now had to get back into the system through CAMHS for prescribing. But that has been OK although time consuming. I hope you get on alright, I find it extraordinary that the GP would say such a thing, that is totally out of order. The problems you have at school dictate that an assessment is necessary surely, you cannot go on like this.

[Squeegle]

Re the school and their duty - you can speak to www.ipsea.org.uk/, they are extremely helpful. You probably will have to make an appointment online, and if there are no appointments email them and they will get back to you. I have not found school to be particularly forthcoming, it is definitely better to be forearmed.

[Squeegle]

ps. one more thing I have done is to get in touch with the county council educational psychologists directly and push for them to assess my son. This has not happened yet, but it has at the very least made the school prioritise this a bit (ie they have filled in the form!!). They kept telling me that it would take too long so in the end I spoke to county myself. The day I spoke to them, they actually got in touch with the school, so at least I am seeing some movement. God, i didn't realise it would be such a battle, but it does not seem uncommon. At last i have realised the squeaky wheel gets the oil. I have not squeaked enough before - I was too trusting!

[MrsBagpuss]

Squeegle thank you so much for all your input on this, it's lifted my spirits just knowing someone out there understands and has/is going through similar.

Yes the GP was inappropriate and actually acted like a cross interfering relative lecturing him on how he needs to start behaving or else he would be watched in class by people thinking he has special needs ! He flipped and stormed out the room.

The ipsea website looks amazing, I will contact them tomorrow and see what they say.

We have another meeting arranged with the school this week and again we've voiced our concerns and disappointment in the lack of support and harsh treatment and have stated it can't go on like this, they were taking about giving him a reduced timetable to get rid of him from some classes! He's hard work and my gut feeling is it's just too easy to remove him rather than try and work with him. They are so judgmental!

I wish I'd pushed for this years ago because I think his age now is being a bit of a red herring with him being 13.

I hope things with your ds are improving now you have diagnosis and treatment. Can I ask is the school doing things differently now? Do they make allowances?

[guggenheim]

Ffs! There are some really shit schools out there- sorry not very helpful.

Get reading as much as you possibly can about ADHD and Asd- they often come hand in hand.

Keep a list of notes and every single time school complain, reframe what they say. Do it in a very calm but rather patronising tone. They tell you he had to leave the classroom, you re explain that he has been put in a position where he is unable to cope. What are they going to do about that? How will they ensure he has access o curriculum?

When you go for the next meeting, here are some key phrases which you need to say loudly : safeguarding issue and illegal exclusions. They have a duty to care for your child and part time timetables should only be thought about when everything else has been exhausted.

Bugger - baby's woken up -I've got more to say so might post ltr.

So sorry you are being let down in this way

[cansu]

You need to persue a medical route to get him assessed for adhd. If he is diagnosed medication could help. However I think you do need to listen to what is happening in the class room. If your ds is being rude to staff and other students and is calling out and not getting on then that is enough for him to be removed as the other students have a right to learn too. The school need to explain what they have tried to manage his behaviour. You should ask for behaviour support for him which is different in different schools. I have seen some schools offer a mentor who meets daily with the child. Some might offer ta support and some may use external agencies. What they wont do though is allow your ds to disrupt classes. I know how hard it is to hear constantly negative stuff as I have been through many incident reports and meetings with my dd who has asd. A diagnosis will also certainly help you to get more support and more understanding.

[KingLooieCatz]

Hi there. I'm also in Scotland and DS got his ADHD diagnosis yesterday. We have also been through some bad times and at DS previous school I felt he had been pigeon-holed as a naughty boy with inadequate parents. Thank goodness DS is now at a good school and has a great teacher - vast improvement. It sounds like you have been exceptionally unlucky with medical advice and with schools. Evidence suggests ADHD is underdiagnosed in Scotland and there do seem to be some dated views around. The evidence says that life works out a whole lot better for children with ADHD when they are diagnosed and treated (whether medication or appropriate support).

In terms of school processes, maybe look up "Getting it right for every child" (GIRFEC) policy and process for your school and your local authority. Painful as it might be it would probably help to try to cultivate a mutually supportive relationship with the school. You do want the same thing i.e. the best for your child.

Please go back to the GP and insist that your child is referred for assessment. We waited 10 months to see CAMHS but from our first appointment with them it has been only 2 months to diagnosis.

[mumbanator]

Wow poor you it sounds like you've had one terrible school after another really lacking in appropriate strategies. Well I am a GP with a son and a DH with ADHD and I have no idea why you haven't already been referred to Paeds on any of these occasions. I would make an appointment with the most reasonable GP in there and request a referral.... insisting if necessary.