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If it's not mental health then what is it..........

(22 Posts)
Mysticstar13 Fri 18-Nov-16 21:31:20

My youngest son is like a tornado that erupts or a never ending bouncy ball, he struggles to sit still, concentrate, pay attention, be quite, lack of self control, no volume control, forgets about dangers, road saftey, classes anyone that speaks to him as a friend, gets angry, frustrated, easily wound up, ( was advised to have a look at the Conners cbrs form for ADHD by another parent he scored 140)

In school he manages fine as long as he's kept in the structured routine, playtime the teacher called him wild.

Struggles across the board at school but not enough in there eyes to give him the much needed help that he constantly asks for. Yet they admit he has SN and is academically 3yrs behind his peers. Got referred to tier 2 of camhs they worked with him for 10 week on a 1-1 basis, found that he can be hyper, fidgety, poor memory, struggles to switch between imagination / reality.
He's very rarely in trouble but puts himself down, low self asteam, lack confidence,
He can rock for hours on a night when going to sleep and on a morning while waking - resulted in 2 broken cots, 3 broken beds over 11yrs.

Now the tier 2 cahms have said he's not adhd - ( they haven't assessed him) or that it's a mental health isssue so they won't be able to look at him. They have now referred it to the educational psychologist stating that they need to look into his needs more. Yet the woman has only observed him in class and his teachers say that there is something with him but they don't know what.

Help!!!! Anyone with any ideas on what/ where to go next

Marshmallow09er Fri 18-Nov-16 21:58:54


There are lots of brilliant people on these boards who will hopefully be along soon to offer their advice.

How old is your DS? Could you ask for a referral to a development paediatrician through your GP (it could be the diagnosis pathway in your area though is through CAHMS. My experience of CAHMS hasn't been great; our paediatrician however is amazing).

Also, have you looked at sensory processing disorder? I'm absolutely not diagnosing your DS but my DS can't manage playtimes at all as he gets massive overstimulated and can't regulate himself (he's also autistic but sensory issues are a huge deal for him).
(I also think I have it, it explains a lot of my childhood! I identify so much with DS here. I used to rock myself to sleep every night and still find things like head banging very soothing (not that I do it in public!)
I also struggle with some food textures, clothing, crowded and noisy environments).

zzzzz Fri 18-Nov-16 22:12:19

Your stuck in an admin loop.

Go to GP and ask to be referred to paediatrician (give evidence of difference e.g. Behind at school and behaviour.)

Ask to be assessed for EHCP (by email to LA) again say why giving evidence.

Both assessments will give you a bit more clarity.

In the meantime DS who is similar is really helped by a large cup of tea in the am and strategic exercise.

Mysticstar13 Fri 18-Nov-16 23:04:03

My lads 11. I started off with my doc because school was no help, the doc referred us to the starting point of cahms ( I'm my area they deal with all ADHD/ asd referrals ) which now is sending us back to school, I'm currently in the process of an ehcp but school again are saying that even tho he has Sen he doesn't meet the criteria for a ehcp, I've got a caf in place to try to get things sorted or moving at least before he is due to move up to high school next year, for we feel that he isn't going to cope well once there

FrayedHem Fri 18-Nov-16 23:30:36

Have they clarified exactly why your DS doesn't meet the threshold for an assessment? If not, I would ask for it in writing, so you can go back to your GP to request an onward referral to a paediatrician. I would get the GP asap to ask for the referral but querying it with CAHMS may result in them looking again and deciding they will assess him.

As for the EHCP, it isn't up to the school decide whether he meets the threshold, it's the LA, and even that can be challenged.

It must be incredibly frustrating <understatement>, but keep pushing ahead.

Marshmallow09er Sat 19-Nov-16 07:30:07

mystic please don't listen to school - we were told repeatedly DS wouldn't qualify for an EHCP as he was too 'bright' - this is not the case at all and he has just been assessed for one by the LA (I applied myself).

Marshmallow09er Sat 19-Nov-16 07:31:30

(Although worth saying his current school is really supportive, it was his previous school that weren't - however I know wish I had applied far sooner)

Ineedmorepatience Sat 19-Nov-16 11:54:08

mystic the only legal criteria for an EHC needs assessment is that the "Child has or may have special educational needs" or "The child needs or may need special educational provision that is not normally available in schools."

Local authorities have their own policies but they are not the law! In most authorities the policy makers train the sencos!! And therein lies the problem!!

Check out the IPSEA website and good luck 💐

Ineedmorepatience Sat 19-Nov-16 11:57:59

I would also go down the paediatrician route.

What is his social communication like? Does he have lots of friends? Does he have friendship issues? Does he get upset by misunderstandings?

Mysticstar13 Sat 19-Nov-16 14:59:28

He doesn't have any friends out of school, in school there is only a few that he bothers with, he does get upset with misunderstandings, he also gets very frusterated if you interrupt him or if he can't finish what he's saying, he sometimes tries to make new friends but very rarely succeeds. ( he tried to make friends with a girl in his year last week who told him to go away cause he's horrible which resulted in 3 days of extreme bouncyness and constantly on one )

I have some help to apply for an ehcp but have been advised to see what the edu psych says first to see if we have any additional info we can use to assist us )

FrayedHem Sat 19-Nov-16 15:59:45

I would apply for the EHCP today tbh. When they do the needs assessment the Ed Psych will do a full assessment then. The clock is ticking if you want to get it finalised before he starts high school. The school asking for Ed Psych input could be the EP give advice by phone first, or refuse or the school may not want to use their budget for it. And even if the Ed Psych agree to come and visit, you will have the wait for them to come and do it, then the wait for the report. Then the LA still has 6 weeks to consider if they will do a needs assessment if they stick to the statutory deadlines.

As well as your parental views, you have school evidence he is behind academically, and then the observations from the 10 week 1:1 work via CAHMS would should be more than adequate for your request for a needs assessment and to counter any LA refusal to assess.

Ineedmorepatience Sat 19-Nov-16 18:03:57

I wonder if speech and language might be a possible route into assessment? If he is struggling with social communication he might benefit from an assessment!

In my area they call it a Complex communication assessment and I am fairly sure you can self refer, well you can in my area.

It could flag up any communication issues which might point a paed in the right direction to assess for other things.

Good luck flowers

Mysticstar13 Sun 20-Nov-16 20:28:58

I've got the parental request form for the ehcp, I'm now just not sure on what it put in the box at the bottom

FrayedHem Sun 20-Nov-16 22:12:42

Have a look at the SOS!SEN website which has templates for EHCP requests. SOSSEN. I would actually use that if the form they provide is particularly small.

Include everything you have mentioned in your OP and the follow up post about his social issues. So the lack of danger/social awareness, poor sleep, behind academically (breakdown exactly in what and by what as much as you can), playtime behaviour, self-esteem issues..the lot. And how long those behaviours have been present.

I would also say in your OP school have said he is o.k. in structured times, but you also say he constantly asks for help that they don't have the resources to provide. That is quite significant - he constantly needs help due to his above difficulties, but the school do not currently have the resources to meet that need.

Attach copies of school reports/any type of report that back your letter up. Diary the 6 week deadline for a response to your request. They should also contact you to inform you they have the request, so I would put a 1 week reminder in for that too.

PurpleMinionMummy Sun 20-Nov-16 22:38:10

I agree it all sounds like sensory processing problems. Worth looking into.

Mysticstar13 Mon 21-Nov-16 10:08:33

Thank you all for the help. I've got a lady that's willing to help with the ehcp thing, how do I go about looking into the sensory processing, I've got a meeting next week with his tier 2 cahms worker should I mention that to her.

Ineedmorepatience Mon 21-Nov-16 10:15:57

You need an OT they may have one attached to camhs or they could refer you.

Mysticstar13 Thu 24-Nov-16 14:25:38

Well the edu psych meeting that was arranged for next week to discuss her observations of him has now been changed to the last day of term to where I then can't do anything now till the after the holidays, got turned down for dla for him for school have basically called me a lier and told them that there is nothing wrong with him and to top it all off he's bust another bed with his rocking. Everything seems to be going from bad to worse

FrayedHem Thu 24-Nov-16 14:59:58

Oh no, that is all really crappy. Do battle on with the DLA, how the school can claim there are no issues is frankly bizarre. Submit everything you have to prove your point and I'd also insist on a meeting to discuss their response to the DWP.

Do you know who changed the EP appt, was it the Ed Psych or the school? Can you contact the EP directly to ask for the report in advance of the meeting?

FrayedHem Thu 24-Nov-16 15:08:00

Re DLA, what have the DWP said the school said? Refusals are common so check what the school actually reported in case the DWP have misinterpreted something

Mysticstar13 Thu 24-Nov-16 22:42:00

School have changed the date because the teacher isn't available that day and the edu psych wants to speak with us both.

I don't have anything apart from my taf/ caf report at the moment.

School told dla that he is a perfectly normal child that has no issues and that he doesn't need any additional help in school. ( had a letter from school today to tell me that he's going to be doing a special reading program to help him)

FrayedHem Thu 24-Nov-16 23:33:27

hmm. well, I suppose you have to give them the benefit of the doubt over the moved Ed Psych appointment. But I wouldn't let the DLA response drop. I would start off playing the innocent - that they appear to have misunderstood the forms as DS is behind academically so he must be receiving extra support. Then mention that you have previously been informed of the social issues at playtime/lack of friends etc. So can they look again at what they have completed and rectify it asap.

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