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Question about me having to deliver DS Sen support

(22 Posts)
Youarenotkiddingme Fri 20-May-16 21:55:26

It's no secret DS school and I do not get on. They aren't adaptive to DS needs but would rather he fit into their idea of what should happen.

I've applied for EHCP and got turned down for assessment - appeal has been sent in.

LA do their own non statutory version of needs document. DSes has been updated but school are still insisting he does Sen stuff after school on the basis they are inclusive confused

One of the things is DS has 30 minutes spelling/reading comprehension support a week delivered by trained staff member. When she's been busy on his slot he's been asked to do it after school. They've also said DS will have literacy packs sent home during holidays. I've got them to agree no curriculum homework during holidays then.

Personally I don't think he should have to do it but I know it's because they have to 'win' this imagined fight they have with me and will say as I made such a fuss about DS having the support I shouldn't be stopping him iyswim?

I will add its not just fuss - DS was having daily wave 3 interventions before and made little progress so my view was he needed different input but at same level to close the increased gap. They tried to say being 3.5 years behind in literacy and spelling etc isn't an issue.

What they sent home took DS 30-60 minutes a day in Easter holidays.
Now this half term is 7 weeks so he'll get 3.5 hours support. So technically I'm expected to deliver 50% of his support - yet I'm not trained.

I have no intention of fighting school but feel this should be something to consider with EHCP assessment appeal. Either DS needs more support than school can provide or funds available for me to be trained to same level as school staff to deliver it at home.

So should I email the head of Sen who is my caseworker and simply ask her to make arrangements for me to attend a course to deliver these interventions? I've no doubt she'll ignore me. She's not responded to the email I resend every 2 weeks asking her what is next as the IPA they said will work isn't and they don't feel DS needs an EHCP.
I just think having the email would be beneficial to me in the long run - or is it likely they'll use it as another attempt to say the issue isn't DS needs but my disagreements with school about what he needs?

(IMO if school are sending it home they are saying he needs it)

knittingwithnettles Fri 20-May-16 22:03:43

The first thing to find out is whether anyone else is getting that much homework.

In ds1's school they get set enormous amounts of work to do in the holidays as a matter of course, from Year 7. Every holiday and half term.

It may affect your case if this is the norm for all their students, and they are just differentiating ds's homework to be literacy alone.

knittingwithnettles Fri 20-May-16 22:04:43

oh yes, I've just noticed they are setting curriculum homework for the other students, sorry.

zzzzz Fri 20-May-16 22:20:39

Honestly? I wouldn't. I would deliver it to the best of your ability and be seen to be supporting their plan.

Choose your battles, build your reputation and collect data on what works for him and what doesn't (and evidence).

BlackeyedSusan Sun 22-May-16 00:59:45

attempt it. if ds has a melt down or gets distressed write on it that ds was unable to complete the homework due to his disability and another strategy needs to be found as this one is not sufficiently adapted to his needs.

ds does not do homework as he is too busy having a school induced meltdown everynight.

Youarenotkiddingme Sun 22-May-16 06:29:40

Thanks all.

Yes I insisted on curriculum homework so DS was being treated differently because of his disability. I understand DS will have to work harder but there's a difference between harder and doing interventions iyswim?

It was someone else who suggested I should be trained as school insist only this trained member of staff deliver it - but I was wary of starting another battle that would be just for the sake of it.

Great idea re evidence. I've got all I did with him over the Easter break including showing an exercise he did where he could match the word 'struggle' (for eg) with the correct picture eg, juggle, puddle, bubble. One of the things I've written on EHCP application is that DS needs assessment as to why he isn't making progress in spelling/literacy despite interventions using a phonics approach.

Youarenotkiddingme Sun 22-May-16 06:31:43

Wasn't and couldn't! Perhaps I should be doing literacy interventions blush

AugustaFinkNottle Sun 22-May-16 07:38:34

I must say, the school seems to be making your case for you. By taking the staff member who's supposed to work with him away, they're demonstrating that they can't meet his needs within normal resources, likewise by making him do the work with you outside school hours. Make sure you have a paper trail proving all this.

Youarenotkiddingme Sun 22-May-16 07:44:23

I do!

There is a very large school near me that actually advertises their Sen day as what I'm saying DS needs. It's over subscribed and I've avoided looking at it before due to distance, location and the fact there's 3 times as many students.

I'm ringing tomorrow and will ask to meet senco, ask what they would do with DS based on his current needs and levels etc. Hopefully they'll have a place (very unlikely) or it will give me a case to go to la and say 'yiu are responsible, this is what DS needs and will get - make arrangements to move him' (it's not that simple I get!) but hopefully disagreement resolution would be a start to show it'll be cheaper for them to send him to a ready set up placement with transport than a specialist placement.

StarlightMcKenzee Sun 22-May-16 16:58:13

Youare YOU will design and implement all support and need requirements outside of school hours. THEY will design and implement all support and need requirements within school hours.

It really isn't hard.

He does not need a waking day curriculum. He needs a school hour curriculum. If they feel he really DOES need additional hours outside of school then you can ask them to contact the LA about arranging and funding it.

StarlightMcKenzee Sun 22-May-16 16:59:45

All the evidence, and things that should be considered as part of the EHCP you need to make sure you get in writing. Either directly from them or in your own communication TO them clarifying what they are saying.

And then submitted to tribunal in your bundle.

StarlightMcKenzee Sun 22-May-16 17:02:00

'Hopefully they'll have a place (very unlikely)'

They'll have a place once you name it on the EHCP. They don't have any choice.

Youarenotkiddingme Sun 22-May-16 17:09:57

Issue seems to be though that they only implement things because I push for it. They give him an hour a week and just stick everything in this hour.

They really don't get DS needs support way beyond what they are providing. Hence my fight for assessment. LA are saying its a school issue though because they aren't providing it. Yet la won't respond to me and answer what else school should be doing and what else there is beyond what he's getting despite me highlighting the decline in behaviour/MH etc.

It's sooooooo frustrating.

In the meeting we all had senco kept going on about how DS would have a scribe/reader/laptop/extra time in GCSEs. Great! But what I can't get them to discuss or even commit to is that if they think he'll need all that then what does he need for next 4 years to help him gain the skills he's clearly lacking.

It's clear they don't give a shit and it's breaking my heart sad - especially because I can't just 'fix it'

Youarenotkiddingme Sun 22-May-16 17:22:17

The main issue seems to be I evidence need - ask for support to meet it.

They refuse to discuss or produce expected outcome from the support.

They out a token effort in. Then they produce something as a retaliation. They've invented this fight in their head that they have to have with me. They created it from the first time the senco spoke to me and I asked a question.

It was a response like "whoa, who do you think you are? You need to back off and trust us - we have expertise in ASD" that's pretty much how she worded it.

But the la are using the schools crapness as a money saving and defence for them not to do their statutory duty.

StarlightMcKenzee Sun 22-May-16 17:23:00

'DS would have a scribe/reader/laptop/extra time in GCSEs'

Have you got this in writing?

The thing is, you can only have those things in GCSE's if that is the normal way that you work when NOT taking them iyswim.

StarlightMcKenzee Sun 22-May-16 17:24:58

Your beef is with the LA, not the school. Try and remember that. The LA is responsible for your child getting their provision.

They can't shrug off their duty because they don't want to force the school to behave.

You can get an EHCP even if your child's needs can be met from existing school resources too, so don't fall for that one.

Youarenotkiddingme Sun 22-May-16 17:25:51

Not in writing but is on OT report. My mum asked about normal way of working (she teaches year 6 so does this for sats) - senco replied "er, yes, well we will look at that as it only has to be for a year up to then."

Ds does use a laptop now and also teachers tend to read questions for him each half term for module tests. He says some get annoyed with it though.

But that's given me another thing - DS needs assessing for 1:1 in class assessments.

Youarenotkiddingme Sun 22-May-16 17:27:37

Oh yes I have the information from la which says "where an EHCP has support that costs greater than 6k top up funding will be provided"

Therefore it's not about money or school exhausting their resources - it's about what the resources are, the cost of those and who will fund it.

I have a copy ofmanchester judgement to produce as my ace card if la force this to tribunal.

StarlightMcKenzee Sun 22-May-16 17:32:47

Exactly! That is key. You are not asking for funding and quite frankly couldn't care less if your child's support was provided for free by a highly trained member of the WI.

Focus on needs, and support for those needs. The LA can worry about funding, or not funding, you don't care and shouldn't.

StarlightMcKenzee Sun 22-May-16 17:34:07

Having a fire pit was the best, so thank you streaky for the idea last year.

StarlightMcKenzee Sun 22-May-16 17:36:55

Sorry, last post was for the G&C

Youarenotkiddingme Sun 22-May-16 17:41:29

I want to set fire to the la's arses grin

I'm pleased with my appeal. I decided to go in simple and what I hope is effective by quoting c and fa about where a child may have Sen or need support greater than their peers.

Listed need, listed interventions had, showed where it's made a difference and where it hasn't to highlight need for further assessment. Produced evidence that DS was achieving and exceeding across the curriculum and now isn't.

I have plenty I can add for counter arguments if need be and things like out of school support and resources and need if la come back to fight.

Plus I'm waiting for salt to get back to me re language and literacy, DS EP assessment and report, report from alert programme which finished this week and appointment with Camhs in a few weeks.
It's clear by the number of professionals involved recently need is increasing and therefore support needs to go with it.

And I LOVE the fact OT wrote on DS report it's likely as demands increase on DS the level of support needed to increase.

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