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Advice needed re echp appeal and county own statement version.

(12 Posts)
Youarenotkiddingme Tue 10-May-16 17:50:33

I'll give back ground and try and be brief.

Ds has asd and difficulties with literacy and writing as well. It's a separate difficulty but there's some cross over with the ASD language bit as well.

Ds had daily interventions in juniors for reading comprehension and spelling as well as a scribe and support in literacy, lunch club, ELSA support and 2 afternoons a week at nurture group.

Secondary promised to be great but aren't IMO. Very stuck in what they do rather than what's best for child.

Ds has been struggling with English and keeping up academically despite always being at expected and above expected level before.

I applied for EHCP as DS behaviour and emotional stability declining - assessment refused and la trying to lay massive difficulties at door of school and I disagreeing.
Also despite previous wave 3 interventions DS has made no or little progress.

My la have a non statutory version of an agreement between parent and school. Thing is they use it that parent agrees to support - of course I do - but it can't be used to get more Iyswim?

Now I've just been and re done this document with school - they are fuckers and keep adding anything I say he needs into a 1 hour session and then claim DS can't manage more than X amount of time on these things despite him having longer before. They also have managed to get round the fact I refused DS to do touch typing after school.

Now, I am appealing EHCP assessment on basis even if DS has the inputs he's getting at previous level they didn't increase his attainment or progress. But I still have concerns la will use the resources argument or that I agreed to support in document.

So do I accept the document as it is and appeal anyway and just argue that he's needs can't be met because it's clear we don't know exactly what they are and that's why interventions are failing or I need to fight first?

Another thing school have out on this document is literacy pack to be sent home during holidays. They expect DS to do about an hour a day during holidays - so why is 20 minutes a week term time enough?

I just need some wise words and any advice.

AugustaFinkNottle Wed 11-May-16 08:04:35

The fact that you agreed to support is irrelevant. You can't be there in school and that's where he needs the support, and if he had an EHCP they couldn't include parental support as part of the provision he needs. I'm not sure what you mean by the LA possibly using the resources argument?

For the purposes of assessment, all that you have to prove in law is that your son has or may have SEN, and that he may need the support of an EHCP. It's a very low hurdle. If he's made no progress despite support being put in place, I would have thought you have a good case. If I were you I would definitely get on with the appeal. It might be helpful to get an independent educational psychologist's report to back you up - SOS SEN have lists of people with experience of tribunal work. It would also be worth checking whether they've got any workshops on appealing coming up, as it's very useful to know what to expect and get some guidance on strategy and evidence.

claw12 Wed 11-May-16 08:29:20

If LA don't assess how will they know what is needed to put in this alternative document?

claw12 Wed 11-May-16 08:39:43

You could accept the document with the proviso without assessment the document has not identified all you ds's needs, therefore not identifed appropriate provision to meet needs.

Lodge your appeal ASAP which takes about 6 months. Use the document to show that a) it hasn't worked b) you've given it 5 months.

Bearing in mind LA will probably agree to assess just before tribunal, so get it lodged ASAP.

Youarenotkiddingme Wed 11-May-16 21:14:08


Il lodge appeal. Ds was due to see ed psych this half term but funnily enough it's now just going to be 'this term' so therefore not before I lodge appeal.

Can I still add it late?

I'm going to be asking ed pysch some very specific questions and pointing out previous recommendations haven't worked etc and asking specifically what else DS needs.

I'll lodge appeal. I point out difficulties on each document, what recommendations were, what has been done and then show it's not helped and therefore ds needs further assessment.

I'll get report from alert programme in about 4-6 weeks too. It's just that nothing will arrive before the cut off for appeal date.

knittingwithnettles Wed 11-May-16 21:39:18

You don't need to send in all the evidence now, you just appeal with a list of reasons (which can be same as original reasons for asking for assessments) THEN you follow up with the Ed pysch and Alert report. There isn't any need to delay appealing. The faster you appeal the faster the Tribunal date will come round. I see absolutely no reason, with the evidence you have already and the knowledge that you are having an Ed Pysch report done, why they wouldn;t concede long before you even get to Tribunal. They are counting on you not to appeal because it is too much trouble. Once you do, you are more trouble to them at a Tribunal than you are if they assess. It is a numbers game. At every stage, some people will drop out, and they save that way. It is not that they won't follow the law eventually, it is just eathat they assume some people will give up and that saves them money.

SOS SEN might recommend An Independent Ed Pysch report with detailed recommendations from someone who is used to Tribunals (and therefore sufficiently threatening to the LA even virtually)might cost about £1,200 and then you might have to pay extra for them to be an expert witness at Tribunal. And it only lasts 6 months - year. I had a much cheaper one done for £700 which convinced them to assess, so it doesn't have to be a proper "Tribunal" threat just a true record of his deficits or spikey profile. I don't know whether it would have been any use at Tribunal but I didn't get to that stage. However, it didn't give me such a good picture of what he needed in a school, and of course was thoroughly depressing but all Ed Psych reports for EHCP purposes (apart from LA one) tend to be thoroughly depressing and negative. Unfortunately that is what you want.

claw12 Wed 11-May-16 22:13:28

I did post a link to solicitors who help for free with tribunals, If you are on a low income on the other thread. They can also help with the cost of expert reports, prepare documents etc

I don't know or need to know your financial circumstances! But here is the link

knittingwithnettles Wed 11-May-16 22:23:19

I think the simple answer to your literacy pack question is that in the holidays he will be free the rest of the day, so could possibly concentrate for a whole hour on just formal literacy, whereas if he is in school, and therefore participated in plenty of other formal learning he might be too tired to fit in more, absorb stuff? It begs the question as to what he learning in the school day anyway; I suppose your argument could be that there needs to be more core learning and less extras (ie needs to drop a foreign language for example; I'm not sure if you mentioned that already as a done deal) Anyway, why should you, the parent supervise work that is meant to be provided by an expert in termtime. You could just refuse to do any work with him in the holidays saying that is not your remit and you dont have the skills to supervise him in that capacity, but I suspect that would be calling their bluff.

knittingwithnettles Wed 11-May-16 22:26:17

If a school told me to do an hour a day with ds in the holidays I would feel most disagreeable. It is not for THEM to tell me, what happens in the holidays. I can choose to do something but it is optional, the school term is when the formal learning is meant to be delivered, after all, or we might as well all throw up our hands and say what is the point of school anyway (sorry home ed rant)

claw12 Wed 11-May-16 22:34:34

School/LA are probably delaying EP assessment, due to your request for assessment ie you could use it as evidence against them!

Yes you can add reports after you lodge appeal. I sent documents a few weeks before tribunal day. Ive even heard of people adding a report the day before.

Appeal date is usually in about 6 months

enterthedragon Thu 12-May-16 09:04:01

youare sorry I can't be of much use, as you know we're having difficulties getting our EHCP woes sorted. I feel we are going to end up at tribunal so I'm keeping an eye on your posts, and will add anything that I can help with. flowers

Youarenotkiddingme Thu 12-May-16 09:53:24

Thanks all. Just being able to chat is a great help. flowers

Love your bit about holidays and learning knitting. I have asked about dropping a foreign language numerous times - DS is learning 2. School must tell me they can't because they are an inclusive schoo, and senco told me it's more than her jobs worth to agree it.

She's the jobsworth IMO! This is the woman who described DS as 'socially immature and sulks and when he doesn't get his own way' yet claims to have expertise in ASD!

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