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Personal care at school?

(36 Posts)
EmilieRushmere91 Mon 25-Apr-16 14:49:03

I just wanted to know if anybody has a child who needs help with personal care (for whatever reason) at mainstream primary school...
My DD's primary school do not help her at all with any 'toilet-related' needs even though she has Spina Bifida sad

Hedgyhoggy Mon 25-Apr-16 15:03:37

My ds (6) with ld is not toilet trained and refuses to wash hands. School have only ever been positive and helpful -but I know lots on here do not have such a good experience. Does she have a statement/ehcp that outlines toileting needs or school nurse 😒 care plan.

BackforGood Mon 25-Apr-16 15:08:13

If she needs help, then they are obliged to provide that help.
There should be a Care Plan in place.
Arrange an appointment with the SENCo in the first instance, but then take it higher if you don't get anywhere - HT, Governing Body, LA.

EmilieRushmere91 Mon 25-Apr-16 15:08:49

That's really good. Do you think that we haven't been given a EHCP/statement because it is only her continence that she needs help with?? She doesn't need help with anything else (no learning support ect).

BackforGood Mon 25-Apr-16 15:10:44

You could ask the SENCo. But without an EHCP, then a Care Plan is the written documentation to ensure she gets the support.

EmilieRushmere91 Mon 25-Apr-16 15:16:57

Thank you, that's really helpful. She needs help with changing her pull ups and wiping her bottom (she tends to leak a bit of poo that gets dried onto her bottom because she has lose anal tone). But we get called in to school to do it because their policy is that they don't do any personal care at all. I think will contact SENco

EmilieRushmere91 Mon 25-Apr-16 15:19:40

Oh my me naive but i didn't realise you had to pay for SENCo!! shock

BackforGood Mon 25-Apr-16 15:21:47

You don't! (Why do you think you do?)
The SENCo is a teacher at the school, with responsibility for all things SEN

EmilieRushmere91 Mon 25-Apr-16 15:28:07

Oh OK! I just googled it and something to do with SENco came said a consultation is £250!!!! I will ignore it!
Well this is how little the school tell me. It's just such hard situation because to look at her, you wouldn't have a clue that there is anything wrong with her. She gets completely overlooked in my opinion. It's hard to know if I'm just overreacting and I should just leave things alone...

BackforGood Mon 25-Apr-16 16:19:42

Of course you aren't over reacting.
Your lovely dd has a medical condition which means she needs support on occasions during school hours.
The best thing is to approach the school SENCo in the first place and explain to the SENCo that she needs assistance due to the fact she has spina bifida.

If, however, you don't get everything you need in the first instance from the school, then google IASS (Independent Advice and Support Service) and then the name of your local area. EVERY Local Authority HAS to have one. They are an organisation set up to support parents of dc with an SEN or Disability get what their dc need at school.

zzzzz Mon 25-Apr-16 16:21:27

Of course they can help. Email asking for a meeting and if possible take a nice letter from your GP detailing her needs.

I'm angry and a little shock that this hasn't been put in place from day 1.

Ineedmorepatience Mon 25-Apr-16 16:25:12

I cant believe your child started school with support needs and nothing has been done to support her !

Definitely contact the senco and I would also contact the school nursing team in your area! This is really really poor!

Keep coming on here for advice!

Good luckflowers

EmilieRushmere91 Mon 25-Apr-16 16:45:41

Thank you guys. I have had a lot of reactions similar to yours I must say when explaining this to my friends and family. (I am also new on here so it's great to have your support!)
The most confusing thing of all, is that on their website, if you look on their 'policies' section they have a whole section on how they carry out intimate care? So why on earth do they say that they don't do it, and why do we get called in to school?? Is it because they perform it but nobody is 'trained'?!?! She had a 'care plan' drawn up by the school when she joined reception (she is now year 1 going into year 2) but it hasn't been looked at/reviewed/we havent been called in to discuss her needs again since. I am completely baffled about the whole situation. It is mentally exhausting sad

PolterGoose Mon 25-Apr-16 17:12:40

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

EmilieRushmere91 Mon 25-Apr-16 18:21:52

I have tried the school nurse. but I never seem to get anything back from them! It doesn't help that they are actually based 40mins away from the school shock

zzzzz Mon 25-Apr-16 19:11:01

You don't need the school nurse, but you DO need to start getting everything in writing. Ds has the kind of care you describe in school and they certainly shouldn't be calling you in from home for years to save them doing it. This is making me really cross for you all.

Start with an email explaining that you were happy to offer them a hand with dd during school hours for a few weeks but never imagined they would still be asking you to come in X times a week 6 terms in and ask them how they intend to manage going forward?

This honestly isn't a big deal. In our school some TAs do personal care and some don't (because they are paid a pittance more if they will help). If you get no joy from your email then I would just phone the LA SN team (ours is called 0-25 team) and ask their "advice". because they will bend over backwards to sort it before anyone notices how rubbish they are being at school

Who told you they "don't do that at school"? confused and angry

Do you get DLA? That might focus their minds on the fact she has additional needs for her age. angry

EmilieRushmere91 Mon 25-Apr-16 20:31:35

We were told when she started that they 'don't do intimate care' and when we go in the TA usually says "I'm so sorry, I wish we could just do it for you!"

We were awarded DLA 2/3 months ago.

I've read on their policy that they will do intimate care if she has an IEP (individual education plan) but A. We weren't told that at the start and B. She doesn't have one!

Everything just seems to be such hard work and I feel like I am being a nuisance always keeping on. And for an example...she came home from school today having not changed her pull up once!! They don't understand the implications of how hygiene can impact on infections which she is already prone to. It's so frustrating.

Thank you so much for your advice. I'm going to keep an eye on what happens for the rest of the week and ask for a meeting for next week hopefully.

PolterGoose Mon 25-Apr-16 20:37:40

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PolterGoose Mon 25-Apr-16 20:38:39

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

zzzzz Mon 25-Apr-16 20:46:23

Ours isn't really polt but good to know some are. smile

It's crap about the iep and "wish we could help". Go in and see the head. Phone and talk to your dds GP and ask them to call school if you get no joy. There are lots of advocates and lots of voices you can get involved. Leaving her in a sodden nappy all day is neglect and they have a duty of care.

Outrageous angry

PolterGoose Mon 25-Apr-16 20:48:52

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BackforGood Mon 25-Apr-16 23:26:39

I agree with the others. School Nurse shouldn't need^ to be involved as this is a pretty straightforward duty of care situation (as opposed to medical procedures), however, some school Nurses can be great advocates.

If the school impose their own rule about her needing an IEP (she doesn't need an IEP, she needs a Care Plan), but if that is their line, then the simple answer is to say 'Well, lets get the form out and write one for her then.

Oh, and as Ineed said, keep coming back here and asking advice.
There is NO WAY they should be calling you in, and NO WAY your dd should be sitting in the same pull up each day.

If you get no joy with the SENCo or HT at school, nor the school nurse, then IASS (as I posted up top) would be the next port of call, but there are lots of Charities that are there to support parents - SCOPE are very good, and have widened their remit beyond Cerebral Palsy to support other families. Also Contact a Family are another group worth contacting. Or indeed the Spina Bifida Charity Shine

zzzzz Tue 26-Apr-16 00:06:18

Most GPs/consultants would be more than happy to call the school for you. If you call the consultants secretary and explain she will organise it for you (just call the hospital you go to clinic in and ask to speak to Dr XXXXs secretary), if you don't have a named paediatrician (on the bottom of your last letter) then the ask for a call from her GP and they will help.
Please do keep posting if you need any more support (or just to chat/waffle). I find talking about stuff on here is a good way of running through things before I actually tackle RL.

AugustaFinkNottle Tue 26-Apr-16 11:00:52

Have a look at the Department for Education guidance - . Lots of useful stuff there, including the fact that the governing body has a duty to ensure arrangements are in place to support children with medical conditions so that they can access and enjoy the same opportunities at school as any other child. It points out that arrangements should show an understanding of how medical conditions impact on a child's ability to learn - and this one will, if your DD if uncomfortable and developing skin problems, or if other children are bullying her or ostracising her if she smells. There's information about health care plans beginning at paragraph 12. On page 13, it sets out the fact that school have to have sufficient staff available to deliver against all individual healthcare plans, if necessary by recruiting staff: there's no suggestion that they are absolved from that duty if they think they don't have adequate funds.

The most important bit is paragraph 25 which says it's not generally acceptable practice to:

*require parents, or otherwise make them feel obliged, to attend school to
administer medication or provide medical support to their child, including with
toileting issues. No parent should have to give up working because the school
is failing to support their child’s medical need.*

If they continue being unhelpful, contact the governor responsible for inclusion and specifically point out that paragraph; also ask for a copy of the school's complaints policy and use it.

Ultimately if they won't help your child they are discriminating against her on the grounds of disability. If they are really obstinate, point out to them that you may (reluctantly) have to bring a disability discrimination claim in the Special Educational Needs and Disability Tribunal.

BackforGood Thu 28-Apr-16 13:33:31

There's a really useful document on the ERIC website called Right to Go

(Well, it was there yesterday, I can't find it today hmm ) You might have to ring them. It is a 20 page doc you can download or order, and it gives you all the right phrases and terminology to use to remind the school of their obligations and responsibilties. It also gives them ideas on how to make things work.

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