Is GFCF the right way for ASD DS who has no obvious bowel probs ?

[Missisdoyle]

I am in a quandary about whether to put DS, 5, on GFCF diet. He is a very fussy eater & you've guessed it, he survives on a G/C filled diet ! P'butter & j sandwiches,yoghurt,porridge,cereal & fruit are staples. He has recently started to eat cucumber,corn & carrot /potato waffles -but that's it...
I realise that this desire to eat only G/C foods could indicate a intolerance to them & possibly lead to a leaky gut.

He was born via CSection (BF solely up until 6 months) & I have since read that this can adversely affect the gut flora of the child. I, myself have had candida problems in the past, but took a probiotic when preg with him ( & did so years before he came along). He was a very colicky baby,with a lot of reflux & a terrible sleeper. I am currently trying to read up on the gut ASD connection & wonder if it would be relevant to my DS, who has regular, healthy bowel movements, no probs with wind ( although he does hiccup, after laughing a lot !). He has a bit of mild eczema, which I gather is gut related.

Apart from his sensory issues, anxiety,pragmatic speech delay, he is , thank God, a healthy, thriving boy, with bags of energy (he occasionally has his off days).He has not yet been diagnosed,I have a feeling that they will not diagnose him as he is what the meds would classify as high functioning.

I have also been reading up about the health benefits of A2 milk & Raw milk, with regards to healthy gut flora. I am extremely dubious about feeding my precious (raw milk)anything that could potentially harm him. I asked my GP , but they seem to be very against GFCf, so I again turn to my kind & knowledgable friends at Mumsnet.

Sorry for the essay !!

[GnomePhone]

You could try a slow and gradual elimination of either dairy or gluten first to see if it has any effect. Dairy is the more likely culprit with eczema I believe so may be worth trying that first.

There is a tolerance 'ladder' of dairy products (you can find this by googling) with milk being the most allergenic, then yoghurts and soft cheeses, then hard cheeses, then cooked products made with milk protein such as biscuits. If he drinks milk then this could be slowly removed or replaced first, keeping protein levels up via meat/pulses etc. Then if this seems to be workable and not restricting diet too much, remove/replace products further down the ladder, keeping a diary of any changes or improvements.

[Missisdoyle]

Thanks Zzzzz, yes I do actually give him Juice plus & Epsom salt baths every 3 days. I was wondering about also adding probiotics & Omega 3s. I am reluctant to give him things without consulting a health professional, but our doc seems clueless about the gut -autism link !!
Thanks GnomePhone, I did not realise that eczema was a reaction to dairy. I am going to try him with A2 milk, to see how that goes. I'm wary of giving him soya milk, as I have read that it could be detrimental to a boy's fertility, later on. He hates almond milk & I am still trying to convince him with coconut milk !
I am currently experimenting with some gf/cf version of his staples. He's not convinced though ! At teatime I swapped his wheat wrap for a GF one & he moaned that it had "yucky brown stripes" on it !! AArrghh -"they are gridle marks", I replied, through gritted teeth...blaah blaah !
I had to laugh at the thought of him drinking camel milk, though ! I actually googled " What does camel milk taste of ?" & the obvious reply was "of camel" !! Bleurrgghh...

[GnomePhone]

Re milk replacements, it might be simpler to just not give milk as a drink (or with cereal) at all as it's not a necessary part of a five year old's diet. Or you could try slowly replacing some of the cow's milk (10% at first) with coconut milk, then build up to 100% if that goes well.

Eczema can of course be caused by all sorts of things, internal and external, but cow's milk is one of the most common food triggers along with eggs, soya, wheat, fish and nuts.

[Missisdoyle]

I am not attempting to fix my son's autism, if that's the implication.I have got pulled up on that a few times on Mumsnet !
I would like to alleviate his anxieties, meltdowns, addiction to wheat based/casein based foods ( like many ASD kids, his comfort food is bread & butter) & most of all I would like to help him with his expressive language & conversation ( as at present, he finds the lack of it hugely frustrating).
I realise if he continues to survive on a limited diet, it could impair his health in the future.
I do not want to take risks with his health, I wish to improve it as best as I possibly can.
My doctor was simply regurgitating NHS policy on GFCF,so I would imagine if I sought advice of another NHS doc, they would reiterate that advice.
Thanks GnomeP', I will try that milk 'trick'.

[Jasonandyawegunorts]

I have got pulled up on that a few times on Mumsnet !

Probably becuase tampering and removing massive sections of a childs diet based on guess work is rather silly.

[Jasonandyawegunorts]

not to mention outright dangerous.

[Jasonandyawegunorts]

My doctor was simply regurgitating NHS policy on GFCF,so I would imagine if I sought advice of another NHS doc, they would reiterate that advice.

And yet if you give your child rikets or other health problems from this you will be the first one to use the service.

[Missisdoyle]

Bloomin' Nora ! I was just asking for advice on how to help my son's speech problems, meltdowns, sensory problems & general terror of every day life ! Now I'm giving him rickets ! Naughty mummy ! Next time I won't bother posting for advice on Mumsnet. If I wanted to be judged in such a sneering & haughty way, I'd have consulted my in laws !!

[Missisdoyle]

BTW the fore mentioned "guess work" of GFCF is backed by numerous medical studies, just not by the NHS. I am not anti NHS. I am eternally grateful to them for all that they have done for me. I did not use th words clueless, either.

[Jasonandyawegunorts]

BTW the fore mentioned "guess work" of GFCF is backed by numerous medical studie

And even Jim Laidler, who did those early studies and conferences no longer believes it. He has since gone on to debunk many Autism cures.

[MabelBee]

I'm not 100% sure, but the brief stuff I have skimmed over seems to suggest that food intolerance and deficient gut flora in people with ASD leads to leaky gut, which in turn leads to tissue inflammation in the body. Is that right? And that this inflammation affects brain tissue too, so 'correcting' the diet reduces inflammation and the brain then works more efficiently, so symptoms of ASD are reduced. And then are you thinking that disordered language is a symptom which can be affected in this way? I have no idea what I'm on about really. So not quite sure why I'm posting at all.

I did, however, notice a very obvious alertness and definite calmness when I started my daughter on probiotics. Which is along similar lines. But not at all sure about whether I would go further down that road and restrict her diet.

[MabelBee]

Ooooh. What's that all about then? I've had a quick Google. How do you know how often or how much?

[Jasonandyawegunorts]

MabelBee Whatever you do stay away from Polly and Jonathan Toomey and their Autism clinic (Or autism file, or whatever it is now) stuff. They are well known con artists types who have made a lot of money with snake oil, but stay in a very grey area that is 100% legal, skewing the research and results then charging hundreds of pounds for a bottle of multi vitamins and the like. Nothing is acutally proven about leaky gut for example, but they use it as science.

Basically anything that charges you an abundent amount of money or reqiures you to scoot around actual doctors advice should send out alarm bells.

Other than that there are loads of things out there that may help with regards to deficiencies that cause autism like symptoms.

[Missisdoyle]

....flounces back...
It's been a tricky week, what with DS starting his second term at reception.
I apologise if you thought I was on the "attack".
I did, however, find the tone of Zzzzz's posts condescending & a touch hostile.
I am clearly no scientist, merely a mum trying to explore every avenue to improve my son's health.
I was asking for advice, not advocating a ricket inducing diet...

The article that I read was in Science Daily.com,

"GFCF may help some children with autism,research suggests".

"experts have suggested that g & c derived peptides cause an immune response in kids with ASD...peptides could trigger GI symptoms & behavioural probs...

parents noted ...increases in their kidssocial behaviours, such as language production" etc
This piece was from FEb 29,2012. If you google the topic, you can find many other reputable articles on the topic.

[Missisdoyle]

BTW Zzzzz, did you know you can get big tubs of Epsom salts on Amazon. Cheaper than Boots, as far as I know.

Thank you Maybelbee, yes, perhaps if I put my case as clearly as your post,I would have got further !
That was pretty much what I meant (I too,clearly,suffer from foggy thinking !) Also gut problems, or inflammation( as Maybelbee rightly put it) ,apparently can be passed down to the child,in utero, leading to conditions such as ASD.

Apparently ASD is an epidemic only in the western world,in the third world it is scarce. The studies have suggested that inflammation is a 'disease' that only afflicts rich, westerners.
The reason could be that we lead an excessively sterilised life in west & we donot have enough healthy parasites in our system.
Sorry, I am rubbish with computers & can't do links, but here are 2 articles that support this claim,
'The New York Times',"An Immune Disorder at the Root of Autism",
&
'Examiner.com', " why does Autism continue to evade the Amish community",

I was thinking if I could reduce inflammation in my son, through his diet, then that would improve his cognitive skills, expressive language, social interaction being just 2 areas that could improve...

[Missisdoyle]

MaybelBee, thanks, you mention your DC improved on probiotics.
What brand do you recommend, please ?
But you also mention that you would not go so far as to do the GFCF diet. That's interesting.
I would love to know did your DC have leaky gut symptoms before you decided to go with the probiotics?
I am merely considering the GFCf at present.
I have bought some GFCF breads, pancakes & wraps, but my son was not impressed !!
I have also read that doing GFCF can often help to broaden a child's limited diet. That also appealed. I don't want him to get stuck in a rut, but I certainly don't want him to starve & defo no rickets !!!

I am thinking now, that I will ask Paed when we see her next month ( step 2 of diagnoses route).I have since discovered 'Allergy Induced Autism' & will contact them, regarding the diet & my son's inflammation with eczema. They may be able to help.

[ouryve]

Lots of people fall back on carbs, often with added fat (eg bread and butter, toast, crisps, cake, biscuits, chocolate) as comfort food. It's basic human physiology and has little to do specifically with autism. What is more common with autism is an inability to sense fullness, so one slice of toast would turn into 3 or 4, if not limited, for many people. DS2 stuffs his face endlessly, if left to his own devices - we have to hide stuff and put it out of reach. I'm not talking specifically about treats, either. I'm talking about loaves of bread. If I make a loaf of bread in my machine, I have to time it so that it finishes cooking after he goes to bed and put it away, out of reach, when I go to bed, or else he'll pull handfuls out of the top of it.