8 year old compulsive liar

[SideOrderofSprouts]

I don't know if i should be in here but i am hoping i can get some advice.

My nearly 9 year old DD1 is a compulsive liar. She is very Jekyll and Hyde. She has no empathy for other people and has the mentality of 'I like it so i took it'.

She takes food from the kitchen 'because i am was hungry' without any thought to anyone else or whether it is a meal time soon (this usually happens when she wakes and goes downstairs for the toilet, our only bathroom).

She can not follow instructions. Shes also very impulsive over things. Complete lack of common sense to the point its dangerous sometimes.

We have two other children and neither are showing the same behaviour signs. We are completely at our wits end and have tried everything that has been suggested to us. She just doesn't seem to understand anything about house rules (like they don't applies to her), reward charts, punishments nothing.

I have no idea what to do next. She will literally stand there, when we have the evidence in front of us (todays was mini jam pots she had taken from downstairs in her bedroom, behind her bookcase) and deny it was her until she is blue in the face. It was only when i told her that she wouldn't be going ice skating that she said it was her.

Can anyone give me any advice at all?

[SideOrderofSprouts]

Meant to add. She was violent towards me in the past when her sister was born and she would stand there hitting and pinching me because she knew i couldnt move as was feeding her sister. She grew out of that (or realised that it wasn't doing any good). She is very sly about hurting her sister now but ive been told thats normal sibling relationship

[SideOrderofSprouts]

i have two nephews with aspergers so that is the first thing i researched. I have been looking at ADD and ADHD as i was reading a blog about compulsive lying. She does fit in with ADHD. I will look up PDA as well.

I spoke to her teacher who said she didnt really stand out in the classroom, although she asks every morning for the entire lesson plan for the day and also gets very annoyed when people mess up 'her job' in the classroom (bookcase).

I always thought that it was all normal growing up behaviour until my second DD hit 4. Thats when it really came to ahead with DD1 and i suddenly started to realise that DD1's behaviour wasn't that normal after all.

She has no control over herself. She does things without thinking. The classic lines from her is 'I don't know' or she tells us what she thinks we want to hear. Ie 'why didnt you do such and such' 'Because im lazy'.

In all honestly we tried pocket money for jobs. just simple things like tidy your room, make your bed. stuff the 4 year old manages fine. DD1 couldn't get her head around it at all, and kept doing the one thing we had asked her not to.

Shes a very intelligent girl, she reads at the age of an 11 year and is really interested in science and the like. But her school work standards have started to slip as well as this behaviour getting worse. I worry incase we have missed something or we are just appalling parents. We have been very over bearing with her i will admit and i do lose my temper because i can't understand why she just doesn't get it. That she says shes sorry and then carries on and does it again and again. Its like she doesn't understand what shes doing to the rest of us.

We've been over bearing because otherwise god knows what would have happened to her by now. She has no fear of strangers, no fear of roads nothing.

[SideOrderofSprouts]

Cross posted:

Yes Sanctions don't work. she makes out she cares but mainly she just feels hard done by, she can't seem to see it as being punished because she did something wrong, but that its just somethng thats happened if that makes sense

[SideOrderofSprouts]

I just feel so guilty. I have been a terrible mother really. I've shouted at her, sworn her. In the past we did smack her (we were young parents and did what we were advised by our parents. We feel no pride in it at all. We don't smack anymore).

I get told shes acting out as she gets no time without her siblings yet she gets more one on one time than her sister as i take her to do her hobbies.

Im terrified of her going to see a psychologist and her telling them what evil horrible parents we are but we are trying out best to raise our kids so that they will be able to get on in life, make friends, enjoy themselves. But i am so scared that if this behaviour carries on and really does start going into school that she won't have friends, or enjoy life.

I know i sound selfish but i feel a bit better getting it out of my system. I have an appointment with her teacher monday. Her teacher has been observing her for 3 weeks to see how she is in the classroom and then going to report back to me. D

[SideOrderofSprouts]

Thank you Poltorgoose it has given me and DH food for thought

We've decided that we are sticking to just punishing the stealing and the lying for the moment.

One punishment for lying, one for stealing. We've agreed on them and they do not take place in her room. This is to make sure she doesn't see her bedroom as a punishment place but as her santuary. for a little while longer anyway (she has to share with dd2 eventually).

Going to see how this goes during the christmas holidays etc and then go from there. Also going to see what her teacher says.

[Flanks]

This would also reflect behaviour found in attachment disorder.

[PhilPhilConnors]

I can't really add any more than Polter, but I can relate to the lying.
With us it happens when ds is calmer (he has hfa/pda), and I wonder if it's a way to control us, constant lies, from insignificant things "the dog's water is all over the floor" to whoppers, all seem designed to get us doing exactly what he wants us to do.
We are getting better at spotting the lies and recognise the mood when they're more likely to happen, and tend to ignore or give a non dramatic answer "that's fine, I'll sort it out later".

[Ineedapiginblanket]

I second the Explosive child book, its great!

We had a big issue with Dd1 with challenging behaviour and trying to apply the standard reward and sanction parenting methods for her simply didnt work!

When Dd3 came along it was clear from an early age that she had Asd [not suggesting your Dd has Asd] so we parented her in the way she needed us to parent her [we didnt always get it right and still dont] It made parenting her much less stressful than with Dd1 and we got better results.

I would totally recommend looking outside the box for your Dd and I think Ross Greene will give you a headstart.

Good luck

[DoreenLethal]

Thanks for this Polter - we have a student that, after reading the notes, is classic PDA. Those resources will certainly help.

[AliceInUnderpants]

She sounds just like my 7 year old DD. We were referred to CAMHS for her anxiety and anger issues - though these are just displayed at home, not at school. She has been being assessed for ADHD and ASD as her sister has diagnoses of both. They've now said they doubt she has ADHD or ASD, but issues with anxiety and control. No shit! We are going forward with ADOS and school observation.
CAMHS have admitted that she definitely fits the criteria for PDA, but that they do not diagnose in our area. I'm stumped for what to do now

[Schrodingersmum]

Please listen to Polter, as usual she gives sound advice

Girls often present differently to boys and slip through the cracks even with professionals

From experience with our own DD please ask for help sooner rather than later as it takes a long time to get anywhere with children like ours

Right now you may not be able to see the wood for the trees so to speak, stealing food may just be that in her mind she is hungry therefore she is fufilling her needs.

If she see herself as your equal which is common she may feel angry being confronted over such situations when in her mind she did the right thing

As for being a bad parent, rubbish! Youre here talking which shows just how much you love and care about her, you also need to care about you and not be so hard on youself