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Can someone tell me what is the difference between Auditory proceesing disorder & Pragmatic language disorder ?

(28 Posts)
Missisdoyle Fri 11-Dec-15 13:48:01

Hi, my son has a private SALT ( currently on waiting list for NHS help) diagnosis of PLI. Just wondered what the diff was... He also finds processing language difficult - well I think he does, but it's very difficult trying to ask him, with his difficulties. We are thinking of AIT as a treatment. Anyone had good experience of this ? Thanks.

zzzzz Fri 11-Dec-15 22:27:26

Pragmatics is things like understanding inference (something you'd get by implication rather than it being stated)

Auditory processing is about processing the words, so finding the word you want to say, understanding more complex sentence structure, remembering sequential information.

Missisdoyle Fri 11-Dec-15 23:01:26

Thank you for that comprehensive explanation Zzzzz . My son has difficulty with the pragmatic use of language & I think, understanding, or processing the information. Is it possible that he could have both ? I suppose it will be more apparent as he gets older (he will be 5 in Jan)). It's difficult to converse with him, as the ebb & flow of conversation seems to be alien to him. The things that he says can be very abstract & out of context. He has many autistic traits. I am wondering if AIT would help him. I am constantly looking for ways to help him & it is hard to get much info about PLI, as it seems to be a rare disorder.

zzzzz Fri 11-Dec-15 23:27:00

That's ok. Someone is bound to come along with a more accurate description, that was just off the top of my head. My son is 10 now and has a severe language disorder and has very recently been diagnosed with ASD. smile When he was younger there was lots of "is it mostly language with traits or mild asd with language difficulties".

There is a good course (book youwork through exercises together) called Language for Thinking, which would give you something to do together and for you to track progress. If you have an iPad then there is an app called Language Builder that you can work through together. I use it slightly differently to the way you are supposed to. It gives you a photo and records you talking about it, then you listen to yourself played back. Sounds odd, but really helped ds and is a gentle bedtime activity. If his language is more basic then Buddy Bear apps are good. They were aimed at autistic children but are very good for all language challenged children to firm up all the position words which mysteriously can be muddled without you realising it.

How is school? Is he managing the reading and maths?

zzzzz Fri 11-Dec-15 23:27:53

oh and yes you can have both.

have a read about receptive and expressive language difficulties.

Flanks Sat 12-Dec-15 06:30:08

Auditory processing is associated with hearing and processing of sounds.

SPD is a difficulty is successfully processing language and the structure of language.

Very simple definitions of course. But people can have poor auditory processing and good language skills. Auditory processing is nothing to do with being deaf.

PolterGoose Sat 12-Dec-15 09:12:27

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PolterGoose Sat 12-Dec-15 09:13:06

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

zzzzz Sat 12-Dec-15 09:38:21

I don't think pragmatics is really about social communication, though I think it impacts on social communication quite profoundly (if that makes sense) because you are missing the subtleties and implied meaning behind the bare skeleton of the words.

That was a bit garbled blush this is better

Pragmatists focus on what is not explicitly stated and on how we interpret utterances in situational contexts. They are concerned not so much with the sense of what is said as with its force, that is, with what is communicated by the manner and style of an utterance.
(Geoffrey Finch, Linguistic Terms and Concepts. Palgrave Macmillan, 2000)

So people with pragmatic difficulties would have problems with things like this,

'I just met the old Irishman and his son, coming out of the toilet.'
'I wouldn't have thought there was room for the two of them.'
'No silly, I mean I was coming out of the toilet. They were waiting.'

Flying planes can be dangerous

The missionaries are ready to eat

Missisdoyle Sun 13-Dec-15 12:40:36

Thanks to all for the explanations. I suppose if ds had problems with auditory processing of sounds, it would affect his ability to produce those sounds ( he is very articulate & has excellent pronunciation & word knowledge). His problems definitely lie with pragmatics & structure. I think it is because he is so bright ( he loves to recite his self taught times tables 1 -12 & has read well since 3.5. He is excellent at memorising fav bits of books/films), that we are still waiting for NHS help. He has 5 hours at the mo', 1 on 1 time with TA. We have sought the help of a private SALT, who comes into school twice a month( when we can afford it!) & his TA joins us for that lesson, which has really helped. It just seems that the NHS deem kids like my son unworthy of treatment, as they are so able in some areas. I have explained to the Paed ( we have had an introductory meeting with in Sept & will see her again in Feb, for follow up), this & that he has many difficulties with heightened anxieties, meltdowns, frustration, speech problems. I know he can communicate, & I am eternally grateful for all that he can do, but he cannot explain, he cannot converse etc...

PolterGoose Sun 13-Dec-15 13:19:47

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PolterGoose Sun 13-Dec-15 13:22:17

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

KeepOnKeepingOn1 Sun 13-Dec-15 13:50:28

zzzzz - I would have thought that was more higher level language comprehension hmm

I have always (maybe wrongly) thought that 'semantics' referred to the structure of language (whether you can 'understand' the actual words that are being used) and that 'pragmatics' referred to the actual use of language expressed as behaviour. For example, the SALT first assessed Understanding Spoken Paragraphs and then Following Concepts and Directions to test understanding at a semantic level and then did a Pragmatics Profile (all CELF 4) which is about behaviour - i.e. Rituals and Conversational Skills, Asking For, Giving and Responding to Information and Nonverbal Communication Skills.

I also thought that Semantic Pragmatic Disorder was an 'old' diagnosis that was mostly given to girls who did not display in the same ways as boys and so did not meet the criteria for the triad of impairments but clearly had a language disorder. Hence DISCO etc - isn't this where Lorna Wing and Margo Sharp come into it?

zzzzz Sun 13-Dec-15 13:57:00

There is no more help if your child is more severely impacted by their disability. As far as I know my ds has never had direct therapy on the Nhs, only assessment and TA instruction. He did not call me mama till 4. You may be looking for something that simply isn't there. Ask the question "does any child receive direct therapy from your service?".

The resources I mentioned above are very good.

You will be doing the rescuing here. For Language there is little else on offer. Use this board, it is the best source of expertise IMO

Missisdoyle Sun 13-Dec-15 14:21:53

Thanks for the realistic advice Zzzzz. I naively thought we were going down the NHS route to get NHS SALT/OT help ! I'm guessing if I can get DS extra TA time, it is still the way to go ?

Poltergoose, may I ask how old is your DS ? I'm impressed by your creative approach to this ! How did you go about teaching your DS the significance of animal behaviour ? I do indeed realise how difficult it is for DS to communicate & so I wouldn't want him to be more confused !

Keeponkeepingon1, yes, from what I can gather (I am new to this),SCD & PLI are old diagnosis. SCD is the US term, which does not come under the ASD umbrella.

Have any of you dabbled with AIT, dietary interventions or such like ? Have any of you tried video modelling with your DCs ? I really appreciate all your help, elsewhere it is so difficult to get info on this topic & I just want to help him in every way I can. His school are also very kind & supportive.

PolterGoose Sun 13-Dec-15 14:41:04

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Missisdoyle Sun 13-Dec-15 14:56:44

It all sounds very positive, which is just what I need to hear at the moment !Has your DS got adequate help from school ? Sorry for all the questions ! Does he get any NHS SALT help ?

PolterGoose Sun 13-Dec-15 15:02:39

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Missisdoyle Sun 13-Dec-15 15:46:51

Oh dear, it seems i have been presuming a bit too much ! I am really saddened to hear that people with ASD are not able to access a SALT ! I would have thought that would have been the main area that the NHS could offer help with ! If you don't mind me asking, does he get any NHS help ? I gather from what you & Zzzzz have posted, that the diagnosis route is purely for help at school. This discussion has been very illuminating ! I am glad you have all put me in the know - less disappointment on down the line. I still find it shocking that people with such diagnosis are observed, yet ignored, regarding treatment, by NHS !

PolterGoose Sun 13-Dec-15 15:56:27

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

zzzzz Sun 13-Dec-15 17:08:25

Diagnosis helps lots of things, specifically it gives legal protection, helps access an dentistry, and makes differentiation an expectations. Bullying can be logged as a hate crime. In short it's safer. I want special school for my ds for secondary and dx should help us in the fight to get specialist teaching for him.

Missisdoyle Sun 13-Dec-15 20:11:19

I also think diagnosis would help my DS. The Ed Psych warned me against it, but I felt that she was not right. I think she thought that as DS is "HFA"(her term),that he'd be better off not being labelled. Also his Paed seemed to think we may not get a diagnosis, due to his HF. My point is that if his old nursery team, the Ed psychs, his new teacher /TAs, SENCO & our SALT all refer to him being Autistic, then he must be worthy of a diagnosis...

ZZZzz, what do you mean by legal protection & dentistry ( do you mean due to Ds' constant teeth grinding at night ?!).

zzzzz Sun 13-Dec-15 20:37:19

If he is autistic, he is autistic. He will be an autistic teenager and become an autistic adult. Honestly people are barmy about the "labelling" thing. They don't expect people to hide other disabilities. There are lots of perfectly nice functioning autistic people, there are people who don't manage so well and there are people with autism who are total tossers. It's not a character thing, it's a thinking thing. Would they think he should hide being dyslexic?

What I meant about legal protection is the ability to use the rights of disabled people to gain reasonable adjustments. I also worry that the age of criminal responsibility in the uk is 10 and frankly my ds isn't capable of a criminal act, so I'd like that covered before he gets in any muddle (he's soft and passive but might pee in a flower pot, or perhaps become attached to a toy and not realise he had to give it back). He for example has the right to go on an aeroplane and couldn't be denied the right to fly if he got upset, even if others would be treated as if they were drunk doing the same things.

Dentistry is a pet peeve of mine because not only did it take us months to see a special needs dentist, but it then took months for him to get his fillings done under GA. (IMPORTANT nb In the process I found out that some hospitals won't do fillings under GA and pull out the teeth instead shock.....we go to a different hospital as we like our teeth.) We now have an excellent a proactive dentist who cares as much about keeping ds's teeth as I do and is happy to see him regularly in between so he may one day be able to be treated without GA. I think dx would have sped up that whole process and saved us some pain and sleepless nights. I also think it would have helped when we hit the grumpy Dr in AandE who thought my amazingly gentle and emotionally vulnerable child just needed to be told firmly to behave himself shocksad to stop him tapping the metal bed repeatedly.

Missisdoyle Sun 13-Dec-15 22:39:36

I also think diagnosis would help my DS. The Ed Psych warned me against it, but I felt that she was not right. I think she thought that as DS is "HFA"(her term),that he'd be better off not being labelled. Also his Paed seemed to think we may not get a diagnosis, due to his HF. My point is that if his old nursery team, the Ed psychs, his new teacher /TAs, SENCO & our SALT all refer to him being Autistic, then he must be worthy of a diagnosis...

ZZZzz, what do you mean by legal protection & dentistry ( do you mean due to Ds' constant teeth grinding at night ?!).

Missisdoyle Sun 13-Dec-15 23:16:33

oops..

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