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Letter from SENDIST.

(31 Posts)
Ineedmorepatience Sat 24-Jan-15 17:07:37

Had a letter today explaining why our tribunal had been adjourned!

Basically the panel felt that there was too much conflicting evidence and that they need more specifics before they can make a decision.

The school have been told to assess Dd3 properly and provide accurate up to date information!

They have said that they want a full LA EP report including reports of classroom observations. (Note the plural!!)

And they want the LA's revised views about school not carrying out the support set out in the NIL!

We have to send our response and views on Dd3's progress and the advocate has to get an update of Dd3's views!!

So a bit to think about and at least we know what they are looking for now!!

Ineedmorepatience Sat 24-Jan-15 17:08:53

Oh and they want school to send her personalised plan to!! HA, well thats a laugh because she hasnt got one!! confused

fairgame Sat 24-Jan-15 17:38:23

It will interesting to see what school send in then!
Is there a timescale for all of this as well? You don't want to be waiting ages and ages for it all to be done while the LA employ delay tactics

Ineedmorepatience Sat 24-Jan-15 18:11:46

End of April for the school and first week of may for us!!

So basically they have half a term plus a bit!!

Ineedmorepatience Sat 24-Jan-15 20:02:08

And it also says the SALT should review Dd3's progress in the SALT group at school!

Dd3 hasnt been seen by a SALT since December 2013 and the group is run by TA's.

Dd3 has apparently been discussed by the SALT at meetings with the senco but she hasnt seen her.

The last time she was seen by SALT they finished their report by stating that Dd3's inability to ask for help was not a SALT issue and she should be referred to a clinical psychologist. [which has never happened despite me asking loads of people loads of times!]

hmm This will be interesting!

senvet Sat 24-Jan-15 20:09:00

I have my jaw dropped so low you could fit my walking stick in...

So basically, the Tribunal decided that the LA had done such a crap job of preparing their case that they could go away and have a second bite of the cherry and then come when your expert report is more out of date.

I think they have a) failed to act in the interests of the child
b) failed to carry out their duty to sort out which of the conflicting evidence is actually true. Just telling them to go away and try to tell the truth better next time strikes me as VERY wrong

I'd look to appeal this.

If IPSEA won't help try bar pro bono

I'll have another look at some stuff just in case I come to my senses and realise that what I have said above is wrong.

fairgame Sat 24-Jan-15 20:11:03

I bet SALT will be there likes rats up a drainpipe now. NHS seems to have very long waiting lists for normal referrals but as soon as an LA asks them to do an assessment the waiting lists seem to dramatically reduce or disappear hmm

Ineedmorepatience Sat 24-Jan-15 20:23:38

Thanks senvet I dont know what to think tbh!

I dont think the advocate I have been using will be very happy. I think I will ring IPSEA this week.

I knew the LA and school were going to get another bite of the cherry! But at the same time I am glad that it has come to their attention that nothing is being done to support Dd3.

The bit about the LA responding to why the school isnt carrying out the provisions in the NIL is a joke because we knew they wouldnt do them which is why we appealed in the first place! Realistically, what school does do the provisions in a NIL!!

Our EP has got some stuff he can do with her, or he suggested that we could use another EP and then 3 will get the same results but I dont really want to do that because all along the LA have been saying that because of Dd3's anxiety she wont perform for an indie EP which is why her scores are so low! Never mind that her verbal comprehension is on the 86th centile! [Her written expression has now dropped down to the first!]

If we stick with the same EP he will have worked with her for upto 6 hrs and they have actually hit it off so I would prefer this option.

Ineedmorepatience Sat 24-Jan-15 20:24:36

Yes fairgame I bet they will and the LAEP who wrote a report without even meeting Dd3 in December!

bjkmummy Sat 24-Jan-15 21:29:28

unless you live near me and the SALT refuse to write reports for sendist tribunals as they are not commissioned to write them!

honestly ineed - what a nightmare - sendist tribunals at the moment seem to be so stacked against parents - im just hearing horror after horror stories

Ineedmorepatience Sat 24-Jan-15 22:00:52

I know bjk and I did think they were supposed to help parents navigate the system and give them the opportunity to stand up to the LA's!

I don't know what our SALT's will do! They didnt even write a separate report for the SA in the summer, they used the one they had written in December!!

And of course school can now support her as much as is humanly possible in order to make sure she scores brilliantly on her assessments!!

ouryve Sat 24-Jan-15 22:02:47

I have no idea whether to cheer at the dig at the LA's incompetence or feel disgusted that they've been given more time to do what should have been done already, leaving your DD without support for even longer. It's a bit of a double edged sword, isn't it ineed?

Ineedmorepatience Sat 24-Jan-15 22:18:17

It certainly is ouryve there are a couple of digs actually in the letter which made me smirk!

uggerthebugger Sat 24-Jan-15 22:18:28

What senvet said. Every last pixel of it.

There's no way this is in the needs of the child. All it does is to underwrite the incompetence of the LA. If this decision becomes normal, what incentive does any LA have to meet any deadline set by the tribunal, or to present a coherent case in time for the hearing?

This is an institution that's starting to gnaw its own legs off. And it's a matter of weeks before the EHCP appeals tsunami starts to sweep in.

Ineedmorepatience Sat 24-Jan-15 22:27:44

But what can I do ugger?

I have no money for a solicitor sad

It has never been an option for us!

senvet Sat 24-Jan-15 22:39:46

the LA have been saying that because of Dd3's anxiety she wont perform for an indie EP which is why her scores are so low!

They can say this as much as they like, but if the indie EP sits with her and finds that she is not anxious, then she is NOT anxious

Oh, unless the LA stooges sat in on the assessment. Did they?

If so, never let that happen again.

You could have any future assessments done at home. The LA won't be around so when the ie your expert(s) say she was fine, the LA cannot deny it without calling them liars.

appeal
I know you have enough on your plate, but if you can stand looking into appealing this Tribunal decision, you may be doing a lot of people a big favour.

See if IPSEA will run it.

How long do you have from the judgement to appeal? I have 28 days in mind, but there may be a shorter deadline to seek permission to appeal.

Ineedmorepatience Sat 24-Jan-15 22:44:35

Thanks senvet yes I could get the Indie EP to work with her at home! The LAEP wrote her SA report based mainly on a home visit!

I dont know about the appeal timescales and I wouldnt know where to start! I know it would help others, I do understand that but I am on the edge now having been fighting for so long and am not sure I could hold it together for an appeal to them still have to go back for round 2 of this tribunal!

I will email IPSEA tomorrow!

bjkmummy Sat 24-Jan-15 23:02:30

i know a couple of people at the moment who have managed to get to the upper tier - one was a case where the parent in a tribunal was not allowed by the panel to ask questions of the LA witnesses. the whole system I think is about to implode and then as you say there are the new EHCP appeals about to trickle through plus also the secondary placement appeals about to hit the system as well. its going to be a long year at the sendist offices meanwhile its the child who take the brunt of all of this faffing around

uggerthebugger Sat 24-Jan-15 23:07:10

See what IPSEA say. Hopefully they might be able to give you some serious backing. But if you're on the edge right now, and you can't get extra help, don't take this on.

You're the best judge of what you can cope with. I pulled back from appealing once because I knew I'd hit my limit; I thought I could win, but I also knew that it would consume me either way, win or lose, and if that happened, we'd all be worse off. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof etc etc

flowers

WintersDayTOWIE Sat 24-Jan-15 23:07:49

3 years ago I had a crazy sendist ruling which, in effect, left my DS without any schooling/education whatsoever. The LA simply hid behind the ruling and my DS was denied any form of school or education whatsoever for 6 months. No school place. No one would take him. No home tutoring. Nothing. A basic british human right totally and utterly denied my child because of a weird sendist ruling.

My solicitor urged me to appeal and even urged me to go to the court of human rights (or whatever it's called). But, although it would have helped others, I couldn't take on that battle. Mentally it would have killed me and I knew I had to save my resources and push on.

I guess what am saying is that sometime you might loose the individual battle but ultimately you win the war

Personally, I think appealing would drain you. You might or you might not win the appeal. What is important is ensuring you have water tight evidence for May (not that I'm implying you didn't already have that evidence). As wrong as it is, suck it up and carry on. May will soon be here and, one thing guaranteed, the LA case will still be crap.

As our very wise star has always said - even if it doesn't seem like you are winning, every set back is adding towards getting proper support for our children (although she says it far more eloquently than me!)

I used lawyers all the way through my 2 appeals - I didn't know about mnsn then. I certainly could have done without my lawyers for my first appeal if I'd known about this board.

Keep on going ineed

Icimoi Sat 24-Jan-15 23:27:17

I'm appalled that they think it's acceptable that your child is left in limbo for another full term, but I don't know whether you have a right to appeal to the Upper a Tribunal when your current appeal hasn't finished.

You could maybe try putting in a Request for Changes asking that all the deadlines be brought forward or that the tribunal make a decision based on the case that was put to it, pointing out that your child will be seriously prejudiced by this delay and that the LA had more than enough time to supply them with this information before tha last hearing You could point out that there is no need for the school to reassess "properly" because they have the advantage of a proper assessment by your EP. Also point out Rule 2 of the Tribunal rules which IIRC requires them to determine appeals without undue delay.

senvet Sat 24-Jan-15 23:30:57

If I were in your shoes, I don't think I would be able to face an appeal on my own, so it all hangs on whether you can get a lawyer

SO if you can get a lawyer I think it will lower the pressure on you right away, AND the advice might carry over to benefit your appeal.

Try for lawyers from IPSEA - or NAS as they have backing law firms, or try these guys which are barristers and solicitors: www.nationalprobonocentre.org.uk/

If the LA see an appeal it will give them some jitters for the next round.

If the Upper Tribunal overturn one crap judgment, the your next one will be really carefully worked out to make it bullet proof - it may take them a bit longer to issue it, but when you get it, it will be a quality product.

I am really hoping that there is a big shiny silver lining to this crap judgment and it is that you end up with legal representation from NAS or IPSEA. Remember to tell them it is urgent and that you have more than one SEN dc

Fingers and toes crossed that it turns out well for you

streakybacon Sun 25-Jan-15 08:47:44

This is awful. And it frightens me to think of what might lie ahead for us, too sad. The system really isn't in the interests of the child, is it sad.

Ineedmorepatience Sun 25-Jan-15 09:08:11

Thanks everyone, what would I do without this board?
I am low at the moment but I know if I had a legal person on board it would take the pressure off!

I will speak to Ipsea and the NAS asap.

AgnesDiPesto Sun 25-Jan-15 10:09:21

This does seem very wrong, like sendist are doing LA job for them. I guess it's a political shift in that the idea is the new EHCP are for the most severe children and therefore the idea of giving a statement or plan just to give a child legal protection to get a school to do what it should seems to be going out the window.
And just shows what so many people argued that those children without a plan will suffer most of all
It is clearly not within the normal resources of this school to meet your child's needs or they would clearly be evidencing that they are doing it and sendist would have rejected your appeal.
I wonder if you are allowed to ask for a new panel? Eg if you lodged a complaint (if you can't afford to appeal)
Is there any way you would be eligible for legal aid (Google legal aid calculator)
Special needs jungle had a list of pro bono on its site (probably a year ago) one was a barrister I think.
In the meantime I would pick some very specific IEP targets this term eg ask for help should be one of them! And set clear smart deadlines for them to be met
I would insist on being present for any observations.
Whether or not you appeal you can still collect evidence of lack of progress.

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