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Is 2 NC sub levels enough progress from yr4 to yr 6??

(18 Posts)
Ineedmorepatience Fri 14-Nov-14 18:08:57

Hi all, those that know me know we are off to tribunal again soon and I have been doing some preparations.

Dd3 has gone from a 4c to a 4a in maths since summer in yr 4 and 4b to 4c in writing.

It doesnt look enough to me, what do you all think?

KeepOnKeepingOn1 Fri 14-Nov-14 18:49:01

I am on my phone so can't link but if you search my old posts, I have some fantastically anal stuff about progress - big deal on the run up to tribunal with SpLD and contested ASD for DS1 - now at specialist Indi smile

Ineedmorepatience Fri 14-Nov-14 19:09:09

Awesome, thanks keep smile

So not enough then?

We are not even asking for a different school, just a statement with some specialist teaching in it!

Ineedmorepatience Fri 14-Nov-14 19:18:25

Ooops just realised I put the writing levels round the wrong way, she went 4c to 4b but I have also noticed that the data they have entered shows no progress at all in yr 6!!

I am looking at your archive keep thankyou smile

youarewinning Fri 14-Nov-14 20:57:33

It's expected pupils will go from a 2b to a 4d over junior school. 1 level in 2 years averaged at at 1.5 sublevels per academic year.

Often they may go 1 sublevel in a year and 2 the next as you can't record half a sublevel.

Maths looks fine as he still has time to get to a 5c so 1 level in 2 years.

Why has he gone backwards in writing? That would worry me. If it's a 4c to 4b I'd be concerned because it's unlikely he'd make a 5c by end if year 6. Having said that a 4b is expected at end of year 6 so progress may slow once they've reached this stage?

youarewinning Fri 14-Nov-14 20:58:31

4b not 4d!

youarewinning Fri 14-Nov-14 21:00:15

It's unlikely any progress will have been made by this point in year 6. Well progress will be made but not recorded as a whole sublevel.

Ineedmorepatience Fri 14-Nov-14 21:23:26

No she is in yr 7 now youare!

youarewinning Fri 14-Nov-14 22:46:28

She would have been expected to have made 1 level in the subjects then, not 1 sublevel! Therefore you have all the information on expected (therefore minimum) progress requirements.

Enough to present to tribunal that 'making a slower then expected progress is widening the gap between her and her peers' it doesn't matter what her starting point was.

Good luck with tribunal

Ineedmorepatience Fri 14-Nov-14 22:58:02

Thankyou youare smile

bjkmummy Fri 14-Nov-14 23:39:03

hard one I need as im playing NC tennis with my LA at the moment - however latest levels shows progress is slowing - they are artificially inflating her levels by saying she is tested only with support - at year 6 she is about a 3c. however my indie EP also now assessed her and in the last year the gap between her and her peers has grown even wider and mean that her real levels are around NC level2. in the last year in spelling the gap has grown from her being 2 yrs 9 months behind her peers to now being 4 years behind!! that year of intervention by the school has failed spectaculary

I also need to find keeps previous post about progress

youarewinning Sat 15-Nov-14 08:10:21

This is exactly how my DS progress is occurring. Slower than expected progress despite daily intervention in literacy. And double rate of expected progress in maths! (Logic is his thing!)

Luckily for me the school viewer very honest about this in application of EHCP. Just got to wait for la decision now.

youarewinning Sat 15-Nov-14 08:11:46

Bjk - my DS spelling age went from 8.9 at 9.3 yrs to 6.5 at 9.10 years confused EP thinks it's because he cannot maintain everything and process such large amounts of information.

Ineedmorepatience Sat 15-Nov-14 08:51:16

Dd3 has also been assessed by Indie EP's who both found that her writing is very poor, on the 3rd centile in the first test and the 2nd in the top up this made her writing age 7.something. There were other low areas too but none as low as the writing. I also think that the amount they are expected to retain and produce is a big problem for Dd3 , in reception and ks1 she was way above average but she has slowed and slowed as the yrs have gone by.

Is this due to her difficulties or poor teaching?? I have no idea.

Ineedmorepatience Sat 15-Nov-14 08:52:52

Oh and also the school reported her to be a 5a for writing in the form they sent for the SA!!! But that is a whole other thread angry

bjkmummy Sat 15-Nov-14 15:53:03

when the LA EP went in to see my dd for the stat assessment he did 2 tests with her - one was the pseudo word reading test - and that's all he did - my indie ep tested her last week and it put her 5 years behind!! the LA EP would have got a similar result so he knows how far behind she is and probably why he stopped testing her cos scared what else he would uncover but that's okay so lets just issue her with a NIL and that will solve everything - not! needless to say the LA don't seem to be calling him - cant think why! its all so wrong isn't how they spin our kids levels to how they want them to read and throw the kids to the wolves.

my dd has a really poor working memory as well and clearly also has dyscaulia now as well which the indie EP is about to dx her with - the LA EP did nothing re testing her maths - yep that was a full assessment he did as per the tribunal order - again not!!!

KeepOnKeepingOn1 Sat 15-Nov-14 16:36:40

Also progress includes non-academic (like social skills).

I always banged on about how unreliable NC levels were and advised standardised reading, spelling and maths assessments, preferably before and after a particular intervention to calculate rate of progress. Now that 'levels' are being officially abandoned, I would not be surprised if teachers/LAs argued parents were stuck on levelling, but that this measure did not show real progress, and so we should just take their word instead.

Ineedmorepatience Sat 15-Nov-14 17:19:31

Same here bjk LA EP only tested phonics. Nothing else and yet the Indie report which tested everything has been ignored!

Have had top up assessment date today and its cutting it a bit fine for the final evidence date but hey ho I am sure we will get it sorted.

keep I was thinking about whether the LA will attempt to say I am focusing on the NC levels but that is all they have included as their evidence and theirs are incorrect despite the correct ones being held on their system!! I know they are there because I recieved them yesterday from the information rights people!! (After waiting over 100 days)

In terms of emotional/social targets Dd3 has never met any of the ones set by primary school, she is no further forward in terms of being able to ask for help than she was when she was 5 so I think we can safely say no progress has been made there either hmm

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