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Behaviour problems in school...

(14 Posts)
whojamaflip Thu 06-Nov-14 12:38:41

Hi I used to post here years ago about my ds who had epilepsy, was non verbal and was presenting on the autistic spectrum. You guys were brilliant and gave me fantastic support and advice when he started school. thanks

He's now year 3 ands academically he is flying - top in maths, free reading and when he can be bothered turning out some great written work. He scored level 2s in his sats last year - telling you this to explain that there is no problem with his academic ability not to boast! (Although I am really proud of how far he has come!)

I have been called into school as he is being disruptive in class, generally being very silly and fidgety, not really getting that he is in trouble or that he's causing issues. He tends to react with a smile which makes things worse - don't think it's defiance it's just his default reaction but he is taking up a lot of the teachers time in trying to get him to concentrate and not disturb the lesson.

He is to my mind delayed in his emotional and social development and that this is at the root of the problem. I have a year1 dc as well and they are very similar in their behaviour while my year 4 is streets ahead in maturity.

He has access to a TA to keep him on track in class but it seems to be a losing battle. Unfortunately his 1to1 that he had in KS1 who used ABA with him is no longer at the school.

So where do I go next - meeting teacher next week to try to put something in place to improve things - what should I be looking at suggesting or is there someone I could talk to.

Any ideas will be great thanks

whojamaflip Thu 06-Nov-14 21:02:58


Ineedmorepatience Thu 06-Nov-14 21:20:03

Hi who, does your Ds have a statement?

Who funded the ABA TA?

And Why does he not get 1 to 1 anymore, my guess is you are going to say that because he was "Fine" they have withdrawn it but actually he was only "Fine" because he had a really good TA who was keeping him focussed!!

Feel free to correct me if I am wrong and I kind of hope I am!

whojamaflip Thu 06-Nov-14 21:46:37

Hi no statement as he was never "bad" enough!

Old TA has a ds on the spectrum and trained in ABA to help him and brought those skills to her support role - not employed as a specialist iyswim. She left due to going on sick leave and hospital admission and hasn't been well enough to return hmm

Ds improved due to the intervention and yes you are right his intensive support has been withdrawn as a result of the improvement.

We also have a new ht who try's to avoid providing support for what she sees as non sen problems - and ds is doing really well in his subjects.

I know I have a fight on my hands to get his issues recognised - I need to gather evidence that he is struggling and it's not just being naughty.

I just don't know where to turn - at the moment it looks like I am making excuses in the schools eyes and not accepting that he is just being a brat! Believe me I am the first person to come down on my kids when they are out of order....

amistillsexy Thu 06-Nov-14 21:53:33

It sounds as if he's struggling to keep focused, something which aba would have really helped with.
Can't the current TA use aba principles to keep him on track? Things like working for a round of tokens, then having a short break, throughout the lesson, should help him.
It might also be useful to him if his work could be broken down into much smaller tasks, again, with a break in between. So, for instance, if he's got 20 calculations to do in maths, the TA could break the task down into 4 groups of 5, so he only sees 5 calculations at a time. He should work on his 5 calculations while she runs tokens, then at the end of that token segment he could have a small reward (2 minutes with a tangle toy, or looking at a lego catalogue...whatever floats his boat!), then he works for another run, etc. At the end of 5 calculations, he could have a long brain break, which might involve leaving his seat, before starting on the next set of 5.
Similar patterns can be worked out for most lessons, if the teacher and the TA understand the principles.

I'd also be questioning what 'access to a TA' entails. If it's simply that the class has one, and she/he will go over to your ds if he asks for help, then that isn't going to work. I agree with Ineed that you need to be looking at how school is organising support.
Good luck!

mummytime Thu 06-Nov-14 22:08:50

Behaviour is an SEN - lots of children I have met have been on the register because of behaviour.

"The SEN Code of Practice defines children and young people who demonstrate behavioural, emotional and social difficulties (BESD) as:

Withdrawn or isolated, disruptive and disturbing, hyperactive and lack concentration; those with immature social skills; and those presenting challenging behaviours arising from other complex special needs." from this site

amistillsexy Thu 06-Nov-14 22:15:43

Oh so sorry. Ignore my previous post as it crossed with your last one. That changes matters, and it's my experience that if a head teacher isn't willing to make reasonable adjustments or to put support in place when it's needed, then you are probably on a hiding to nothing.

Having said which, it might work to go in with suggestions for strategies a class teacher can use. It's relatively simple to break down tasks and give a short reward/beak in between. Simple, concise instructions. Avoid using figures of speech and stick to simple phrases. Don't make promises or threats you won't or can't keep. Make sure you have clear, simple rules with stated sanctions, and stick to them. Use praise wisely and name the action you're praising. Watch the child for signs of stress before it becomes distress. Always try to discover the reason behind the behaviour rather than simply 'telling off'. Make sure the child always has a way out...don't back them into a corner - they usually come out fighting! Use humour when appropriate, but not directed at the child, and never when they are too upset to take it.
I'm sure I'll think of more, but it's time for bed, and typing on the tablet is trying my patience!

whojamaflip Thu 06-Nov-14 22:32:15

Thank you - food for thought!

Links look interesting too - will look tomorrow when on computer (on phone at mo)

All advice and strategies gratefully received.

AgnesDiPesto Fri 07-Nov-14 09:34:34

This is what I fear would happen if DS ABA was removed. Being highly distractible is common with ASD type difficulties and a reason why most need 1:1 to keep on track. The last TA managed this so he was more available for learning. The current one isn't. If the HT won't do anything but blame the child / behaviour then you probably need to apply for a statement. It's not that you are asking for very expensive support, some ABA training and supervision of a school based TA would probably get things back on track. But as most schools won't see it as within their ordinary resources to buy this in you will probably have to go the statement route and try negotiate it that way.
Another option would be to call in the local behaviour outreach team who hopefully (but not necessarily) know how to write behaviour plans and rain TAs.
I'd also ask to go in and observe, quite possibly your DS is just runni rings around the TA and the TA has lost control.
DS works for tokens and has breaks and gets to choose motivating rewards (books, IT, go outside) at the end of each token board and it works well. A behaviour specialist should be able to put this in place and then fade it eg with one teacher who 'got it' DS 1:1 was able to stand back and the teacher would give feedback from the front of the class and DS would put his own tokens on.

AttilaTheMeerkat Fri 07-Nov-14 13:21:17

In these circumstances I would be applying for a EHCP. I would look at IPSEA's websites and educate yourself further on EHCPs as these have now replaced statements. is a great website and has lots of useful information on it.

whojamaflip Fri 07-Nov-14 13:32:57

Thank you all.

Was in school this am for dd1 sharing assembly and ds's TA couldn't wait to come over and inform me that she and his class teacher had already had to speak to him about his behaviour several times since he got in - he had only been in school for about 20 mins!!!!

Pissed off that she felt it was appropriate to speak to me in front if other parents at the assembly - then ds came in and was made to sit beside his teacher instead of in the floor beside his classmates hmm I kept an eye on him and he was no more fidgety than anyone else in his class.

I mentioned to the at that I was looking to get his behaviour possibly assessed and her reaction was that he is near the top of the class so there can't be any learning difficulties! I pointed out that social and emotional development delays would not necessarily affect his educational ability!!! She then said that he's not the only one who is immature but he's the only one causing chaos!

I'm beginning to wonder if they have labelled ds as a trouble maker and he's now fulfilling their expectations hmm

whojamaflip Fri 07-Nov-14 13:36:30

Also I doubt very much whether we could get a statement or whatever it's called now - when he was non verbal starting school we went through the process and were turned down as the school was able to demonstrate an appropriate level of support which we were happy with. It's only really since the new ht and the move into ks2 that things have started to go wrong - and appears to be deteriorating the further through the year we go.

mummytime Fri 07-Nov-14 14:39:09

If he is "deteriorating" then you may well be eligible for more help now. I would request an appointment with the SENCO etc. Try getting him one of the new plans, they are supposed to be broader than the old statementing process.
I would make a written complaint about the TA, and express my doubts over whether she is suitable to work with your son - as she seems to just label him. I would be expressing concern that things must be so much "worse" than they have been telling you if there have been "several incidents" in the 20 minutes he was in school.

Don't listen to no! Lots of children who wouldn't get statements etc. in the very early years will get them as they get older, and the problems can become more obvious.

If under the old head they were "coping" it doesn't seem as if they are under the new.

mummytime Fri 07-Nov-14 14:41:14

Oh BTW the one little boy I know who sat GCSE Maths at about 8, is in a private special school (paid by the LA) for his ASD. I might also suggest the TA needs training.

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