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school views for tribunal - would you let the SEN officer do it???

(26 Posts)
bjkmummy Tue 11-Feb-14 15:58:13

a year ago tomorrow I was at tribunal and here we go again............

sen officer phoned 5 mins before I had to pick my daughter up. she phoned on my mobile and then call dropped out so ive bought myself time to get my head round this.

they la have no obviously received my appeal against refusual to assess. sen officer says she has been tasked to take DDs views and she wanted to know my opinion then call dropped out.

at the last tribunal they wanted to do the same and I said no way to an LA officer - the tribunal strangely issued an order saying that it had to be someone independent of the LA so the LA instructed people they use when children in care are suspected of being abused. this meant the person taking the views of our son refused point blank to let either of us as his parents be present. we stood our ground they stood theirs and in the end his views were taken with my best friend being there - 2 and half sodding hours it took them!

needless to say I do not want this to happen again, LA dropped it all on me at a 5pm phone call last time for me to make a decision there and then so this time im keen to do the right thing but also not be caught unawares. my daughter is capable of writing (albeit in a dyslexic style) her own views - so whats the protocol here, I got my fingers badly burnt last time so want to be prepared for this but also want to be reasonable about it. the sen officer is expecting my call although I hate talking to her so much I think I will email her so its in black and white as they have history of squealing to the tribunal that im unreasonable so what to keep my nose clean here

TOWIE2014 Tue 11-Feb-14 16:11:31

Is this your DD's views or the school's views? Bit confused by the title and then the content of your post.

I have to do the school run - I'll PM you later how I got DS's views.

ouryve Tue 11-Feb-14 16:17:08

Funnily, I was reading your thread about last time, earlier, bjk, as I might be needing to discuss this with my own case officer, regarding DS1.

bjkmummy Tue 11-Feb-14 16:23:31

its dd views towie - they want to take her views for the refusal to assess tribunal - sorry I did make it quite complicated as went off on a tangent about last time.

lougle Tue 11-Feb-14 17:09:14

Ideally I would have thought it should be someone she has a good relationship with and feels comfortable enough to be honest, but also able to be impartial?

KeepOnKeepingOn1 Tue 11-Feb-14 17:16:50

I let them get DS1's views but also submitted my own dictated by DS1. He would start with the 'right' answer and then go into a tirade as to why it did not and could not work. Best evidence you can give.

lougle Tue 11-Feb-14 17:18:16

SENDIST guidance says that each party must provide....
....
"if they were not available by the time of sending the response to the
Tribunal, the views of the child about the issues raised by the
proceedings;"

So does that suggest that you may each provide the views of the child? If so, then it would be two statements.

bjkmummy Tue 11-Feb-14 17:27:54

thanks lougle - just realised that the title of the thread is a little confusing - sorry was stressing - the woman has left me messages on my home and mobile phone so is keen to get the views. I refuse point blank to let the sen officer do it as she is not neutral at all and the tribunal ordered last time someone neutral to do it. I was thinking maybe her dyslexia teacher but then I guess im paying her so that may not be neutral. they could ask her class teacher but shes likely to be a witness against us at tribunal as shes the senco and Im guessing the LA will call her

bjkmummy Tue 11-Feb-14 17:29:00

so what I really want to know I guess is how did your childs views get taken and by who?

StarlightMcKingsThree Tue 11-Feb-14 17:42:30

Can you tell them that you are pleased she is keen on getting your daughters views, that you'have told her this and she wishes to write them down for her. she wants to take her time over them and will send them shortly. Coukd you please have a submission date?

StarlightMcKingsThree Tue 11-Feb-14 17:43:05

If this is what your daughter wants to do of course.

wetaugust Tue 11-Feb-14 18:30:21

What a load of nonsense! Some children are too young to have formulated any views and even if they have they may not have adequate judgemnet to realise the consequences.

What are they expecting - 'tell them that I don't want extra help?' sort of answers? It's not for the child to decide.

I'd say that the parent has the responsibility for the childand therefore the parents views are sufficient.

I'd also say to them that you'd been through this farce once below and you have no reason to believe her views hve changed and that to interrogate her again would be unnecessarily distressing and harrassment.

Crazy angry

bjkmummy Tue 11-Feb-14 18:37:47

star - that's fantastic - thank you - last time it was a form they used - I still have it somewhere as I asked for it to be emailed to me for my son to look at it before hand. I am more than capable of doing the form with her plus she has been keeping a diary of how she is coping/feeling at school

wetaugust - last time it was for her twin brother the tribunal so her views haven't been taken before as this is another tribunal for her now.

bjkmummy Tue 11-Feb-14 18:39:38

yes I will also say that I would need to scribe for her as her handwriting would be so poor and her spelling so bad that it would make no real sense if she did it herself - well words to that effect anyway

Ineedmorepatience Tue 11-Feb-14 18:46:22

A form was sent to us by post for Dd3 filled in. I was going to let her type her answers but decided to get her to hand write it. It was scruffy and spelt badly but it was hers so I just posted it back to them.

Actually she made me laugh with the answer to one question, it asked her what she doesnt like about school and she answered "going" grin

wetaugust Tue 11-Feb-14 18:59:39

ooops! Sorry blush

StarlightMcKingsThree Tue 11-Feb-14 19:04:59

Rofl at 'going''.

bjkmummy Tue 11-Feb-14 19:06:19

yes ive gone away and thought probably best if she does complete it!!!! I will email them and ask them to send the form - its half term next week so im not faffing around with it them as will have both boys around as well. the tribunal don't really take much notice of them anyway

ouryve Tue 11-Feb-14 19:07:14

Let her hand write it. You can always provide a translation along with it.

StarlightMcKingsThree Tue 11-Feb-14 19:15:45

Yes, let her write it herself. You can write translation if unclear.

That experience with your ds sounds horrendous though I do remember it.

bjkmummy Tue 11-Feb-14 19:35:57

yes the sen officers voice was like a flashback to it all - I remember dh having a stand off at school as he insisted that a parent was present. at the time my son was so anxious, was vomiting, only in school part time - it was a bad time but now a year later he is in an amazing school, no vomiting and been in school every day so it shows how much fighting for them can work and although it has awful memories for me, I would do it again as it was so worth it

MariaNotChristmas Tue 11-Feb-14 20:17:05

It might be nice to let her submit two. One handwritten, by her. The other could be a verbatim audio transcript of what she says to someone neutral. Neatly demonstrates the dyslexia, which has to be a bonus.

Either way, school will be certain she told them the polar opposite, and might well convince tribunal she reports no issues. Or else the LA will find a way of insisting you use their non-neutral child protection advocate.

Parent partnership can be ok at these 'fluffy' bits. They are often reasonably skilled at talking to children, are widely seen as neutral, and if you audio-recorded a conversation to type up, a transcript would be quite good at clearly showing up any LA-sponsored leading questions.

MariaNotChristmas Tue 11-Feb-14 20:18:23

PS by widely seen as neutral, I mean by tribunals, obv. Though in fairness, lots do try very hard to overcome their LA handcuffs.

TOWIE2014 Tue 11-Feb-14 21:10:40

Just to say, that my LA sent out a form for DS for his views prior to their refusal to assess. A teacher at his old school helped him complete it - she wrote it - he was too young & too away with the fairies at the time to give any coherent response. So it was rather useless.

By the time we got to appeal at part 2, 3 and 4, LA wanted to send someone to get his views. But I refused on the grounds of his anxiety was so severe by then anxiety not at all helped by the pointless assessments the LA had put him through So instead we redid the same form, but this time I made him write it. It took us 3 weeks for him to do it - I sat with him on some of the pages, and his specialist dyslexia teacher sat with him on the other pages. A long time, but it was ready by the evidence deadline.

The LA continuously hassled my lawyers for it because it took so long - they knew what/how we were doing it and had agreed to it but then a certain lawyer who shall be nameless had the cheek to submit to the court that I'd refused to allow them to collect his views! But that backfired, because DS did it all himself - handwritting it all - and it was submitted to the Tribunal.

It totally and utterly showed up the severity of his dyslexia. I didn't spell or correct anything for him - but did provide a transcript. It was a fantastic bit of evidence and was much used during the hearing to show the severity of his dyslexia. I also wrote my own cover-note to his document setting out exactly how he'd written his views (ie who helped him) and how long each question took him to personally think through, and then write out.

bjkmummy Tue 11-Feb-14 21:40:32

thanks towie - will email her later and ask her to send the form for keira to complete. she has just come in from guides and explained a little that she has this form to do. she sat their telling me how she hates school and is being bullied. she also explained that the school keep making her read out loud in class even when she is asking not to as she finds it so difficult due to the dyslexia. the class teacher is just standing there whilst the other kids have a go at her and telling her she has to do it and cant use dyslexia as an excuse - talk about draining the last bit of self esteem this kid has left. I was in tears when she told me as it was horrible to listen to. I wouldn't mind but her class teacher is blooming dyslexic

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