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english comprehension v reading - are they different?

(12 Posts)
bjkmummy Tue 11-Feb-14 09:32:29

sorry if im being dim - im just trying to make sense again of the NC levels. for year 3 and 4 the levels given are for reading. then later in year 4 and 5 the levels given are for English comprehension

are these different subjects or is it just different word for exactly the same thing - don't want the LA to be spinning the figures if you know what I mean!

also some of her levels are give as 2a/2b - the LA is tracking her progress seem to change which one they take depending on which makes it look like she is making more progress

eg English - she was a 2a now a 2a/3c so they take the 3c to show 1 level progress even though she may not be completely at 3c yet otherwise it would say 3c wouldn't it rather than both scores?

then writing = she was a 2a/b - now a 3c so they take the lower score of 2b to show 3 levels progress which unless im stupid isn't 2b - 3c 2 levels????

Im just getting myself totally confused by how they are spinning it - want to do a graph etc to show how she is falling away from her peers etc so want to make sure im doing it correctly and not spinning it like some!

Sunnymeg Tue 11-Feb-14 09:40:34

I think reading is more decoding wheras comprehension is understanding the nuances of the text. DS always got really bad marks for comprehension but top marks for reading. Now he is at secondary, I think that the gap between the two is more obvious as he struggles with interpretation due to his literal acceptance of what the text says.

zzzzz Tue 11-Feb-14 09:42:21

Ds1 reads (quite well but stil "reading books") his comprehension is the same as his comprehension of spoken language (ie about 4/5years behind). They are different skills.

bjkmummy Tue 11-Feb-14 09:45:19

I think my daughter would struggle with reading as well - her EP report put her on the 2nd centile for it. its just confusing now how they are comparing different things so tracking her progress is more difficult to calculate. think I need coffee before I do this as its so confusing which I guess is what they want - it is so smoke and mirrors that im totally confused

zzzzz Tue 11-Feb-14 09:50:43

The two things are just different. Like writing and talking are different. If you read her a story, how is her comprehension (ie does she get the story). Reading is jut decoding.

bjkmummy Tue 11-Feb-14 10:30:49

comprehension isn't too brilliant as she forgets what she has read as soon as she has read it! im just puzzled why up to year 4 its reading levels being given then its jumped to just reading comprehension levels being given - surely they are both important for a child with dyslexia? if I request her school files will it have her levels across all of the curriculum including an up to date reading level.

I just hate reading the refusal letter - the LA point out that an IEP was only put in place in Nov because I requested it rather than school wanting to do it - the kids is nearly 4 years behind for god sake! plus school raised issues with her back in feb - they came to me but that's not mentioned nor is that the school put in 6 months of intenstive support and wrote it had made no difference at all and in fact she had gone backwards - they school wrote that in sept then big bad me then for asking for an IEP in November! there is no mention at all that she has been dx with dyslexia or any reference at all to her appalling score in the report by the EP for dyslexia action.

then to really rub my nose into the fact that as parents we are paying for an hours 1:! dyslexia teaching a week ' she is receiving tution in school via a teacher employed by yourselves to work on the aspects of learning identified by the independent report from dyslexia action - undertaken by a chartered EP'

so the LA acknowledge that all her difficulties re dyslexia are being done via specialist teaching but paid for by me and the school have just wrote an IEP using the report but that's it - they haven't spoken directly to the dyslexia teacher regarding the IEP. right going to get of my soapbox now and carry on with some research etc

lougle Tue 11-Feb-14 12:00:43

Are you sure they're talking about levels bjk? The level sub-sets aren't really real - they're just intended to help teachers break down progress in increments so they can judge how far the child is towards the next level. However, the levels correspond to National Curriculum Points.

This chart shows you the levels/sub-levels in relations to NC points.

2a/b would be possibly a '2b+' on that chart, which means that she was on 16 NC points. 3c is 19 NC points, so 3 points progress.

Have you considered stopping the 1:1 tuition, so that you can prove that she declines/stagnates without it?

KeepOnKeepingOn1 Tue 11-Feb-14 12:08:15

Can't link on the phone but look at the level descriptors for literacy

There are specific reading/decoding and comprehension or sentence reading standardised assessments. DC with dyslexia compensate for difficulty at the single word level by guessing the word from the sentence. DC with ASD may be very good at the single word level but are less able to read words in a sentence.

bjkmummy Tue 11-Feb-14 12:46:17

Thanks lougle the penny dropped earlier and I realised how they were calculating it. Looking at the last year she has surprising made exactly 3 points progress but she is still significantly behind her peers even though she has had according to the school had intensive help and had then forgotten everything she had learnt. The EP report puts her levels lower age wise than what the school say. What im concerned about is that when I spoke to my independent EP she said that the tribunal were more likely to listen to the school than an EP report. The reality is that she is still going to be substantially behind by the end of year 6. She's a sept kid so should be further on due to that as well as she will be 12 when she hits secondary but will be one of the lowest in her year group. I know I'm over analysing everything but if I don't have every argument ready you know the LA will.

bjkmummy Tue 11-Feb-14 13:52:27

Lougle - thanks again for the chart - I've sat and wrote down her levels in numbers/points and yes she has made progress however in each subject the gap has increased as the years gone by so yr3 she was 3 points behind, now year 5 the gap has increased to 5 points so she is not making adequate progress. Feel better now for finally getting my head around it. By now and the end of year 6 which is now 5 terms away she needs to make 9 points progress which is not going to happen. I feel the lightbulb has finally gone on in my head and I'm not mad! Thanks everyone for listening to me! Time to go go and 'choose life' now !

Ps did I tell you toyah shook my hand and Owen Paul stood on my head!!!

KeepOnKeepingOn1 Tue 11-Feb-14 14:45:03

Bjk - it is almost impossible to get to SA/tribunal without teacher subjective recording of at least one sub-level or 2 points progress. Ds1 made 4 points progress in four years - all in the term when I applied winkshock

But standardised tests showed the same rate of progress over four years rather than no progress followed by good progress once they had tweaked the provision.

Use standardised tests to show the objective rate of progress rather than subjective NC levels. I know I keep saying this but I'm hoping the penny drops on this one too smile

bjkmummy Tue 11-Feb-14 15:50:38

yes its dropping keep but im struggling as the standardised testing can be redone until may when the tribunal is due so im out of time on that - my other option is to get the dyslexia teacher to do some tests with her which is what im chasing up at the moment. the cat is out of the bad now so to speak - ive just had the sen officer on the phone as the appeal has now reached them. knew it would happen but also a bit of a shock as well which is ridiculous really but I guess I was hoping it would go away - again ridiculous I know! no sat here wondering if they've have contacted school as well and if the games will now now begin

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