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Very touching ABA video

(71 Posts)
sickofsocalledexperts Tue 10-Dec-13 16:53:17

I couldn't resist posting this video showing the great effects ABA has had on twin boys aged 3. Just don't see how anyone could argue early ABA intervention isn't a good thing, after watching this!

StarlightMcKenzie Tue 10-Dec-13 17:20:26

That's more like it. Though we moved to natural environment teaching quickly this is the type of ABA I recognise when you start out.

PrinceRogersNelson Tue 10-Dec-13 17:42:40

Wow. That's amazing.

sickofsocalledexperts Tue 10-Dec-13 17:45:56

Yes agreed, just like ours too. And what I love is how much they are clearly ENJOYING the sessions, lapping up the learning and interracting so much with each other and parents/tutors!

StarlightMcKenzie Tue 10-Dec-13 17:47:55

It's not though. It's not amazing. It's just common sense and hard work.

I know the kids needed a lot of persuasion at the beginning but no more misery than my toddler Ds expresses when I put him in the pram because the road is too dangerous or move him away from the plus socket with a screwdriver.

But just look how happy they were at the end.

StarlightMcKenzie Tue 10-Dec-13 17:48:17

X post sickof

PrinceRogersNelson Tue 10-Dec-13 17:49:25

It's amazing to see such progress. confused

StarlightMcKenzie Tue 10-Dec-13 17:57:14

Sorry Prince I did know what you mean. But I just feel very strongly that it should be NORMAL to make such progress (with the capability of the child) and not amazing at all.

PrinceRogersNelson Tue 10-Dec-13 18:29:57

Yes it should be. It was a very powerful video and I was thinking wouldn't it be wonderful to live in a country where all children received this education.

sammythemummy Tue 10-Dec-13 18:59:35

Anyone who has an issue with aba should look at the faces of the boys at the end. It's like they've been liberated. Lovely video.

I've just started contacting tutors to start therapy with my daughter. I'm quite excited

Ineedmorepatience Tue 10-Dec-13 19:05:08

Great video.

I am working with a family doing ABA at the moment and their LO has made fantastic progress.

She was totally in her own world pre ABA and now she spends more and more time in our world and is able to join in with activities and follow routines in her early years setting fgrin

sickofsocalledexperts Tue 10-Dec-13 19:21:15

For anyone on the ABA-UK yahoo chat group, there is a campaign to "crowdfund" a Judicial Review of how the NHS and Education deny autistic kids ABA treatment, despite its great evidence base. This is how it all started in the US - parent-power!

salondon Tue 10-Dec-13 21:53:52

This is exactly what our program looks like. The boys made more progress in 6 months than we have done so far. I really wish the LEAs would see this too.

SickOf I will check the yahoo group now.

Sammy - all the best.

zzzzz Tue 10-Dec-13 22:56:30

Very similar to ds1s upbringing. Nice to finally see it in action. Thank you.

sammythemummy Wed 11-Dec-13 09:18:27

Thanks salondon smile

Is there a book on ABA that's equivalent to More Than Words?

moondog Wed 11-Dec-13 09:50:24

Super film, thank you for posting.
Some lovely examples of how the use of external reinforcers (ie toys, edibles) can be slowly faded as the boys become more receptive to the sort of reinforcement typically developing children respond too (ie tickles, and verbal praise and hugs.)
This is because this sort of reinforcement has been paired very carefully with the use of external reinforcement.

This sort of input knocks the socks of what any s/lt or special ed teacher can offer. The same level of data collection, task breakdown and understanding of the science behind such learning is just not within the skill set of these people. I can say that with absolute confidence as I am an s/lt as well as a behaviour analyst.

However it doesn't have to cost the thousands that this family quote. It can and is provided in state funded special schools in the UK and costs no more than the usual dismal 'eclectic' approach.

StarlightMcKenzie Wed 11-Dec-13 09:53:50

Not used it as it wasn't around when I started out but I've heard that this is a fairly straightforward curriculum and relatively cheap (though not looked at the prices recently).

I used VB-Mapp as a curriculum and it is imo one of the best, but the manual is a bit unwieldy for first timers. In fact I don't think even I read much of it. But as a tick list of skills to teach and in what order it's brilliant.

moondog Wed 11-Dec-13 09:59:42

Who do they have running their programme I wonder?
It doesn't say?
Would also be interested in what their LEA have to say about it.

StarlightMcKenzie Wed 11-Dec-13 10:00:22

The family quoted £58k for two children.

That's £29k per child.

Even though I agree with you that it doesn't have to cost that much it is very difficult to get it to NOT do given the way the ABA market runs (imo fault of the LAs who do not use it forcing parents to 'go underground').

But even if it DID cost £29k per child. In London that would not be far off £23k for HL Teaching Assistant, £500 for SALT, £500 for OT, £1000 for Autisim Outreach, £500 EP input and then the on-costs of meetings about meetings about meetings and all the tea drunk.

And a Independent Special school would be in the region of around a minimum of £50k per child but likely by age 9 or so to be a few hundred thousand for a residential placement

StarlightMcKenzie Wed 11-Dec-13 10:01:59

Given the LEA aren't funding, I'd expect them to say all progress was a result of natural maturation and their needs could be perfectly well matched in a mainstream school with some TA access funded at 80%and they aren't old enough to be entitled to anything more than 15 hours of education and that ABA doesn't cure autism you stupid stupid parents who are in denial.

moondog Wed 11-Dec-13 10:07:37

Hmmmm, perhaps. Although important to point out that many LEAs and official folk are supportive of these sorts of evidence based approaches but need help in how to build capacity and competence amongst the existing army of special education bods they employ. The ratio in special schools is usually 1:2 or 1:3 in addition to scores of external folk coming in-s/lts, OTs, physios and so on.
So I repeat that it is perfectly feasible to replicate this sort of good practice in state funded settings.

If a parent is told that a special school can offer an excellent service, my questions would be these:

1. What is the evidence based rationale for your approach?
2. What curriculum do you use to develop early skills and can I see it?
3. How do you keep data and can I see examples?
4. How do you train staff to ensure consistency of approach (this is THE biggest issue)?

If any school not using a behavioural approach is able to come up with these, I will personally eat not just a hat, but a variety thereof. Of your choosing.

moondog Wed 11-Dec-13 10:08:52

And yes Star, even those costs are not great compared to vast costs of generic dismal special education.

StarlightMcKenzie Wed 11-Dec-13 10:14:35


As you know I have some experience of asking those questions.

The reply is usually either 'we don't have to answer those questions', 'the child doesn't need that (EPB) or even that they are bad for the children (i.e. consistency breeds inflexibility and dependency)' and 'we don't have time to keep data. Any time used doing this would take away time from actually teaching the children'.

zzzzz Wed 11-Dec-13 10:19:15

The cost is outrageous. I doubt it should cost even 10% of that to implement.

moondog Wed 11-Dec-13 10:22:09

Utter tripe as you well know and in direct contravention of the growing calls for evidence based practice in education and therapies (which rather begs the question of what on earth people were doing before.)

In the tradition of empiricism which is at the heart of ABA I would also like to point out aspects of the video which I would question. There are no references to any of the assertions made and no reference to the therapists or their credentials, although as a parental video, this can perhaps be excused. If a professional showed me that, it would be very bad form and lovely as it is, I would not ever use it myself in a professional context without this information or the data to back up their claims.

There is too much talking going on while the children work and too much language is being used by the therapists. I loathe all of that singy songy 'nice hands!' 'hands down!' 'nice talking!' ABA jargon. The function is fine but the medium is wrong for many reasons.

I would also use PECS as a bridge to communication while differentially reinforcing all verbalisations which means in non technical terms that any communication attempts used with verbalisations would receive a tonne more of reinforcement-reinforcement of the child's choosing.

Those girls are expert users of token reinforcement systems-very fluent and immediate delivery although at one stage, one is filling in at random which is curious, and not from left to right.

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