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Rule 15 Tribunal rules - present child for examination

(13 Posts)
MariaBoredOfLurking Mon 14-Oct-13 14:10:22

Ring CAMHS and find out who is their ASD lead, or who they have that is the most qualified/ experienced in relation to ASD. Failing that, a very senior and eminent child psychiatrist or clinical psychologist. Then you can agree enthusiastically to a referral to that named person, but not to the usual 'triage', 'school-link' or 'liason' type services.

If they don't have anyone who knows about ASD, then decline and agree you will instead ask your GP to refer you to an out-of area camhs service that does (eg the great ormond street social-communication clinic) wink

KeepOnKeepingOn1 Mon 14-Oct-13 10:00:08

It may make a difference where you are. In my area CAMHS no longer 'do' ASD or ADHD. Paed tried to refer DS2 but it was refused because of no suspected mental disorder. This is new policy (about a year old). Paed then referred to their own neurology clinic. Just adds delay.

If CAMHS is not the diagnostic pathway in your area they won't give an appt anyway.

StarlightMcKenzie Mon 14-Oct-13 09:19:09

Sorry, I meant the tribunal sounds fair in their dealings.

StarlightMcKenzie Mon 14-Oct-13 09:18:08

Sounds fair enough then.

Make it clear to the tribunal that you will present your child for any assessments needed to help them make their judgement but you do need the LA to be clear about how as your have a vulnerable child and any assessments need to be conducted only if absolutely necessary.

bishyboshy Sun 13-Oct-13 22:15:20

They threatened to apply for a r 15 order in their case response.

The Tribunal's response was to order them to give reasons for not filing a proper case response or be barred from taking part in proceedings.

I think they filed something last week but haven't heard from my solicitors as to what it was.

They have lied saying I have written refusing assessments and we have had to spend time disproving this nonsense and writing letters on it.

They have their own in-house solicitor and a barrister acting.

nennypops Sun 13-Oct-13 21:36:47

Have they actually applied to the tribunal for an order? If so, have they given their reasons in the application?

If they are threatening to make the application, you need to get something in writing to them now spelling out the fact that you have not refused but you have asked for their reasons on X number of occasions (giving the dates) and they have consistently failed to reply. Say that you are putting them on notice that if they don't reply and go ahead and apply to the tribunal you will show your letter to the tribunal and ask that they be directed to give their reasons and explain their failure to reply before the application can proceed.

Is the LA legally represented? This sounds like the tactics of a certain firm of solicitors we all know only too well.

bishyboshy Sun 13-Oct-13 13:52:03

No - I have not refused and this has not been ordered but LA has threatened it.

My view is let them argue in front of a judge why they need it when they have reports from everyone else. They just doin't like what they are hearing from everyone.

This is not an EP's report - I think that is harder to argue against.

But this would be a report from a primary mental health team who know jack shit about autism.

StarlightMcKenzie Sun 13-Oct-13 12:57:09

Have you been ordered this by the tribunal?

It is sensible to never refuse and make it absolutely clear that you will present your child should a proper rationale and reasoning for the assessment be given, and provided you are convinced it will not be harmful for your child.

senmerrygoround Sun 13-Oct-13 11:58:05

I have. Dd (then 13) was out of school and housebound. She refused to meet anyone and no one saw her for around 8 months apart from immediate family.

The LA applied for a order for her to be assessed by an EP. My advocate on my behalf did not refuse but said we would "use best endeavour".

In the event she did not see the EP but I invited the EP to the house and I spoke to her. She tried to speak to dd who told her to get lost from behind a closed door!

TOWIELA Sun 13-Oct-13 11:14:51

Totally understand your point - merely telling you what happened in my DC's case

bishyboshy Sun 13-Oct-13 10:58:48

I haven't refused anything.

I have merely asked why it is necessary to conduct a mental health assessment of a mentally well child.

Sadly, these are questions that the LA does not seem able to answer. This is because it is an exercise in delay and not assessment.

If you or I were asked by a local authority to undergo a mental health assessment, we would say - why?

Yet, we are supposed to drag children off to them when we know there is no purpose.

In addition, there is ample research evidence demonstrating that CAMHS diagnose but then have little expertise in supporting children on the spectrum. An NAS research report confirmed that less than one-third of parents felt that CAMHS improved the situation for the child and less than half felt that the service had adequate knowledge of autism.

We have refused no other assessments. The multi-disciplinary team and school agree with what we say. The LA are looking for an excuse to drag things out.

I am tired of an education system, including lawyers, parental advisors etc etc, just letting LAs act as they please.

I think it is entirely reasonable to make them explain themselves. A child has precisely the same rights to privacy as you or I.

TOWIELA Sun 13-Oct-13 10:42:18

In my experience, you will be on very dodgy ground refusing the LA to assess if you are appealing the Final Statement. If you are appealing refusal to assess, then you have better grounds - purely because if the LA have refused to SA then their very stance in refusing means they don't believe an assessment by anyone is required.

It is very common for LAs to request assessments when a parent is appealing parts 2, 3 and/or 4. You may jeopardise your appeal if you refuse these assessments. The LA sent in an EP to do a final assessment on my DS - I originally didn't want it to happen (because this would have been the 11th assessment in as many months for my poor DS, and he was by this stage unsurprisingly very uncooperative and anxious before, during and after assessments). But my solicitor told me I would have to agree because the Tribunal would order it. However, my solicitor stepped in and told the LA the terms I would agree to this (eg me being present in the room at all times when the assessment took place, they had to take into account any anxiety and stop the assessment if it got too bad etc etc)

You have to be reasonable during an appeal - and refusing access to your child to the LA would be seen as being unreasonable by a Tribunal. You do not want a Tribunal Order ordering this assessment, which the LA will then use against you.

Do you have legal representation? If so, get their advice and ask them to write a strongly worded acceptance of the assessment - but with your terms and stating strongly that CAMHS previously didn't want to see your DC.

bishyboshy Sun 13-Oct-13 10:22:15

Have name-changed.

Has anyone any experience of an application to the Tribunal for a parent to be forced to present a child for an examination.

We have not refused any assessments but have merely raised questions about the legitimacy and purpose of a CAMHS assessment (CAMHS has previously said they didn't need to see DS)

I just wondered if anyone has any experience of these tactics.

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