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private school with full statement-but will LA pay for TA?

(61 Posts)
Lesley25 Thu 10-Oct-13 16:03:25

I'm in a fortunate position where my mother has come into money as my nan passed away. Mainstream is failing my dd because of the class sizes. The private school not far from us has a max of 8 in a class.
But would the lea pay for a TA in the private setting?
I have a full school statement for 32.5 hours 1:1 for my dd.
Anyone know if this is possible?

TOWIELA Thu 10-Oct-13 20:27:18

Lesley - indie = independent. He was in a private mainstream school - a very well known one in my area. To your question I do sometimes wonder what happens to sen kids who start at private school at primary level and are later diagnosed. - that is exactly what happened to him. His (and my) experience was awful. I sometimes wonder if anyone from that school reads my posts and realises that I am talking about them.

This private school totally failed my DS. I removed him, home ed'ed him for a year whilst I fought with my LA to the bitter death. He is now in an indie ss fully funded by the LA, as ordered by a Tribunal. My LA hated the indie school he was in - I have a lot of documentary evidence of this. Because of this private school, they hated me from the very start when I first applied and was turned down for SA. But they hate me even more now as I fought them to the death to get the correct provision for him.

ouryve Thu 10-Oct-13 20:34:45

I should imagine that the situation for parents putting their children with SEN into Indie MS is probably similar to those deregistering and opting to home educate. The COP pretty much says that if you do that and provide what is deemed an adequate education then you clearly don't need the statement and if you fail to provide an adequate education, then you're not meeting your part of the bargain, so the statement may be withdrawn.

Lesley25 Thu 10-Oct-13 21:05:28

Gosh TOWIELA, your post really makes me think. I've heard some private schools (before my DD was diagnosed) say things like "you don't want a label", or "everyones on the spectrum" etc etc. And i admit that really bothered me. I just wanted to make sure i was looking at all the alternatives should MS fail. But your post really has just sort of stopped my thinking in its tracks as by your own admission you would never have chosen this option had you known your child did have additional needs.

In my case i know my DD has a lot of support so her needs are not mild- tough as it is to admit at her young age. Putting her in a private school would, now i see, probably be more about me then her.

I shall commence the start for a SS i think. I live in a wide authority so i should count my blessings in that respect that i will have more Special schools to choose from as to what fits her needs.

TOWIELA Thu 10-Oct-13 21:44:47

Lesley - I have been told by an indie EP that if my DS had been in a state school, the severity of his needs would have been identified years ago and he would have had a Statement and fully supported by the time he was in year 1. Instead, he is now year 5 and only has just got a Statement after a massive fight with my LA.

I had it all from this indie school - from the original "you don't want a label, I can handle him" - from the SENCO who refused to let me get him privately dx for dyslexia but then promptly retired and handed over her SENCO job to her daughter (this will out me!). This then changed to "we need a diagnosis, he must be tested", and "we want him to repeat year 1" (when the year 1 teacher didn't know what to do), and then onto "we still don't know what to do", and "we want him tested again". Even the outright question from me "is your school the right school for my DS" was met with blank faces and "we don't know". That, in a nutshell, is the story of 4 years of hell as we lurched from term to term - he had SALT, OT and 1:1 support but it still wasn't enough.

I was left not knowing if this school could not cope, or didn't want to cope or my son was even more severe than they ever admitted. It turned out it was all three.

He's at the right school now - primary need is severe dyslexia but with other co-morbid problems. The LA argued at Tribunal that dyslexia was actually a speech and language problem hmm

Lesley25 Thu 10-Oct-13 21:56:22

Good god . Don't worry about being "outted", your post has helped me put things into perspective, thank you for that. I know of many mums in this predicament so know that this could help so many other parents.
Besides, the teachers involved in your story should hang their heads in shame. Your LA should do the same. I hope this isn't the part where I realise we have the same LA!!shock

TOWIELA Thu 10-Oct-13 21:59:48

Lesley - it's common knowledge on this board that my LA is in my nickname - The Only Way really Is Essex LA

lisad123everybodydancenow Thu 10-Oct-13 22:13:55

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

lougle Thu 10-Oct-13 23:14:29

"8:97 Parents may choose to place a child with a statement in an independent school (whether or not approved under section 347) or a non-maintained special school at their own expense. If parents choose to make such provision for their child, the LEA must be satisfied that the school is able to make special educational provision for the child that
meets their special educational needs before they are relieved of their duty to arrange provision in an appropriate school. The LEA is not required to specify the name of a school in part 4 of the child’s statement where they are satisfied that the child’s parents have made suitable arrangements but they must, in those circumstances, state the type
of provision. Parents should not be treated as having made suitable arrangements if the arrangements do not include a realistic possibility of funding those arrangements for a reasonable period of time. The LEA are, whether or not a school is named in the statement, still under a duty to maintain the child’s statement and to review it annually, following the procedures set out in Chapter Nine." Pg 119

MadameDefarge Thu 10-Oct-13 23:18:33

Lesley, I think you have to be a bit disbelieving here, almost cynical. Private schools are varied and deal with a great variety of children. Within the private sector schools are pretty clearly segregated between high achievers and those who are not. The private schools that where you pay for nurturing and care over academic ability do a great job. But you will still as a parent pay for the extra support your dc needs.

Any selective school, even with feeders, will manage out the children who will not contribute to their results. The only way they will keep them is if their parents will commit to support funded by the parents, if they can see a good result at the end for them.

MadameDefarge Thu 10-Oct-13 23:20:37

I also speak as a sister of a child who was in a 'special school' (shows my age) where there was no secondary provision. My mum moved to the south west where LEA provisional was more generous, and my DB was sent to a specialist boarding school, funded by the lea.

MadameDefarge Thu 10-Oct-13 23:24:19

The problem with that lougle, is that if there as a specialist secondary school in borough, with spaces, very few LEAs would elect to spend the extra money on funding support in the private sector, whether or no that school is appropriate for that child.

lougle Fri 11-Oct-13 09:09:02

Madame, I don't think they will fund the extra support. However, I don't think that's what 8:97 implies.

I think the Statement would show that support as needed, but the parents would need to fund the support because they've elected to fund her education.

I was just quoting the SEN CoP para which shows that a statement must still be maintained, in answer to those who queried if it would be ceased on those grounds.

TOWIELA Fri 11-Oct-13 09:11:39

There was someone on this board (can't remember who tho) who was doing precisely as lougle quotes from the SEN CoP. Their child had a Statement in a private school, the parents funded all the fees & provision and the LA just turned up for Annual Reviews. So the Statement was maintained but at no cost to the LA.

StarlightMcKenzie Fri 11-Oct-13 09:35:02

'Lesley - I have been told by an indie EP that if my DS had been in a state school, the severity of his needs would have been identified years ago and he would have had a Statement and fully supported by the time he was in year 1. Instead, he is now year 5 and only has just got a Statement after a massive fight with my LA.'

TOWIELA I understand it was an Indie EP that made this claim but I honestly doubt it is true of your LA. The behaviour of your private school is no different to a number of state schools that I know of and supported in this behaviour by an LA determined be obstructive I really don't think your outcome would have been any different. I think you needn't have regrets about this, at least not in the context of where you live.

TOWIELA Fri 11-Oct-13 09:50:52

Star, the only regrets I have is that I didn't swing everything into action years and years earlier and that I believed the indie mainstream school when they repeated to me year after year that "they could handle it". The final few meetings I had with them (year 3) when, by then, it had all gone pear-shaped but they hadn't told me it had, were unbelievable. If he had been in the state system, it would have been picked up much much earlier and he would have been in the "system" from a younger age.

With regards to the LA, yes, their behaviour would have been the same state or private because of exactly who the LA is.

MadameDefarge Fri 11-Oct-13 09:58:39

I see what you mean!

StarlightMcKenzie Fri 11-Oct-13 10:12:28

'If he had been in the state system, it would have been picked up much much earlier and he would have been in the "system" from a younger age.'

This. See, I just don't believe this. Not in a school in your LA. They are brainwashed trained by the LA and would have denied needs and insisted things were okay for as long as they could get away with it too.

It is farily usual for schools all over the country to deny need until around year 3. The biggest flow of children from mainstream to special schools occurs in years 3 and 4, mainly imo because the children are not small enough for teachers to be able to wield their power over them any longer, not because they ever coped particularly up until that age.

MadameDefarge Fri 11-Oct-13 10:31:15

INdeed starllight. my ds' dyspraxia was not picked up at all at state primary, even though he was on action plus. How many pointless IEPs I had to sit through with his targets focussed on him improving his handwriting by 'trying harder'. In fact he was bullied by his teacher for his slow handwriting. poor little sod.

TOWIELA Fri 11-Oct-13 10:43:12

To be fair (not that I remotely want to be fair!) my dd was picked up in year 1 in the state system and same LA. She was totally supported on SA+ throughout primary. But then at secondary, all support was dropped. This was in the days before the Internet (and mumsnet!) so, as I didnt know better, I accepted it. The "system" kicked back in again when she went to FE and my LA were very good - but then as she was a young adult, she came under another part if the "system", not the lying school department of SEN in my LA

buss Fri 11-Oct-13 11:37:39

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

eatyourveg Fri 11-Oct-13 12:16:32

TOWIELA* that was me (only jst logged on) ds is in a mainstream independent school - the LA has a duty to make sure he receives appropriate education, however there is no duty on the LA to actually provide it themselves (thats the same with any child statemented or not). There is no duty on the private school to provide what is set out in the statement as part 4 names another school so in effect it holds no weight and I couldn't challenge the school if they weren't giving him the provision set out in the statement. (That is why it is really important for the OP to have the private school on board before she enrols her dd - my school is fab in that they will follow the statement) The LA's duty to ensure ds receives appropriate education is just the same as it would be if he was HE but they don't seem to be so keen to check up on HE dc.

1996 Education Act as amended by SENDA 2001 Part IV Chapter 1 section 324 (5) (a) (i) (ii) is where it says you can have a statement but the parents decide the provision relinquishing the LA of their duty to arrange it - it would also come under the bit in the COP that WetAugust mentioned yesterday. The COP itself isn't legally binding the law just says providers should have "regard to the code"

The LA officer comes along to the reviews to make sure he's getting what they deemed he needs, our particular LA officer covers all the private mainstream schools on my side of the county. By ceasing to maintain the statement the LA would effectively be saying ds no longer has any of the needs set out in part 2 and 3. that would be ludicrous. Statements only lapse when dc move from school onto college and then the students have an LDA which contains much of the same information but without the legal status the statement affords. Its worked for us, ds is now in Y11 and the school have always been more than happy to accommodate him. I wouldn't have considered it had they not been so welcoming as they could easily just turn around and decide not to bother.

eatyourveg Fri 11-Oct-13 12:38:33

Private schools are no longer allowed to charge for some types of support, so all those who are paying through their noses should check the legislation - its quite complex and there are several get out clauses but worth seeing if you qualify under the new requirements . See here for a general synopsis

cestlavielife Fri 11-Oct-13 13:46:02

yes you can have statement provision eg one to one provided by LEA but within independent school setitng.
jsut arrange to meet with LEA oficer an explain that you will fund the school fees, but you want LEA to fund what is in the statement. so long as the independent school happy with this too.

had this for dd in early years (she later didnt need the support so withdrew statement) and also currently a friend has this exact situation with a child with recognized syndrome - attending indep school paid for by parents but full time LSA funded by LEA under her statement .

muchadoaboutsomething Fri 11-Oct-13 13:53:04

I am in the same boat. I want to send ds to an independent private school. He has 25 hours 1-1 at nursery. We would have been given medical hours last year in my county, but now need a statement as the rules have changed which we are applying for. I have no idea what will happen next. Ds is bright but disabled and we just want the money he'd have for his 1-1 in the state system in the private school.

Nanny01 Fri 11-Oct-13 16:16:00

We've been in this position. Ds spent his time from yr 1 to yr 7 in a private prep. Till yr 4 things were ok. Some teachers really went above and beyond for ds. Then his peer group started to outstrip him academically and developmentally. With hindsight we would have used money to push for a full statement instead and ds should have gone to a specialist school from the beginning.

Like others have said private schools tend to either ignore the special needs kids or get rid of them. My ds got refused from one school. Many parents never get a diagnosis as they know that their child won't even get into the school. DS's school coursed us into dropping his statement on accepting him into the school. Wind on a few years later we had to go though the whole process again, this time with all an ot,salt and ed psyc.

The sad thing that happened over time was ds got left out of things. Now in his current school he is amongst his equals. We don't have to explain to the teachers how to help ds and he is taught in a group of 5.

I feel it's highly unlikely you'll get funding for a 1-1 in the situation. You want it. I would say save yourself heartache and go for a decent set of professionals to get the statement you want.

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