ok what do you do when they start wanting to see the whole thing?

[Jimjamskeepingoffvaxthreads]

I know this is common in autism, but I can't remember what you are meant to do. If ds1 sees us start something, but not finish it he has (as of this week) started going ballistic So for example he saw dh shaving then left the room and so missed the water going down the sink and made dh fill it up again. He missed ds3 getting out of the bath, and tried to get us to undress ds3 and put him back in the bath- we refused but he howled for an hour. He missed me turning off the shower and wanted it on and off again. Missed the end of the washing machine cycle and insisted on a new load going on.

Soooo what am I meant to do? I will ring the clinical psych but has anyone been through this. I thought of trying repetitive gentle explanation, but he can't hear me because he's screaming and bititng himself.

[Jimjamskeepingoffvaxthreads]

He's also creating it by weeing in his bed each morning :o

[Jimjamskeepingoffvaxthreads]

ds1 has probably done whatever it is in the past as well.......

[Jimjamskeepingoffvaxthreads]

oh forgot to say :o

[Jimjamskeepingoffvaxthreads]

PMSL- don't worry, remember I found ds2 munching on ds1's poo once......

oh and I got this email yesterday:

"I have been having trouble getting through to you these past couple of weeks.
This morning I called again and finally got through. A young child answered the telephone and informed me that you were not home and promptly hung up.
Please call me at your convenience"

OMG!!! I did find out what had happened. They were ringing from Canada so their morning was our evening, I had just gone out levaing mum and dad in charge, but mr literal ds2 wasn't asked for my mum and dad!!Dad said he was very polite on the phone. "no I'm sorry mummy isn't here, goodbye".

[Jimjamskeepingoffvaxthreads]

bump- could really do with some advice on this. Couldn't get hold of the psych today and next week is half term so zero chance of a conversation then.

[Jimjamskeepingoffvaxthreads]

anyone??? where's davros when I need her :o

[sphil]

No advice JJ but just bumping this for you. I remember someone saying once that Davros isn't usually on MN at w/ends. Hope you get some useful input soon - sounds like you are having a tough time at the moment.

(On a lighter note - think of me tomorrow morning when I am chasing DS2 round the house trying to catch his first wee of the day in a measuring jug. Mid-stream - ye gods!!!)

PS. An OLD measuring jug...

[Davros]

Here I am, not that I can necessarly help! I am just "getting the children's clothes" (sneaking onto MN!).
All I can think of is that you may just have to suffer through it and, horrible though it is, maybe a holiday is a good time to do it, i.e. redirection and ignoring the behaviour related to the "wanting to see all of it" issue. Ha ha, stay calm, talk about something else completely and move on. Also you could reinforce for not "seeing all of it". Maybe deliberately set up some things that cause a problem and don't let him see the very last part and R+, then the last 2 parts and R+...... You could also try to avoid letting him see the beginning of things but you'll have to be on your toes and try to predict what might set him off.
Good luck!

[Jimjamskeepingoffvaxthreads]

davros - do you think its a compulsive type behasviour then, I thought it might be a developmental thing- ie something has cranked into place but not quite right. Oh god I can't do it this holiday- ds3 is too much of a nightmare as well atm! Can't leave him unattended for that long!

[Eulalia]

My ds does this a lot. I'll have a think and get back as I am trying to get him to bed - pretty hard when its still light - arggh!

[rubadubdub]

jimjams, its made me laugh, listening to your first thread all about bathing etc, because my ds gets so upset about stuff and does'nt understand when u explain , its just good to here others going through the sme thing, although we have;nt had it diaognosed yet

[Davros]

Hmmm, hard to know if its an obsession or just one of those passing things that starts extreme and then settles down. Can you do your best not to let him see things that might set him off? The problem is that, if he does get into one of these loops and you haven't been able to avoid or predict it then what to do. I know that when my DS is having a "bout" there is nothing you can do except let him finish in his own time. Other "helpful" people will say "does he want this, have you tried to give him that" and the truth is that, unless he asks for his favourite treats, he doesn't want them, they don't work to stop a meltdown. So all the suggestions I made earlier are fine but not always practical. sorry!

[Jimjamskeepingoffvaxthreads]

It's anything, having a shower, sitting on the loo (I was made to sit back down again yesterday when he caught me leaving the bathroom), the washing cycle etc etc. I think I may just have to introduce a blanket refusal to do anything again, but oh boy we'll have fireworks. I think I need to steel myself for that one. I think I need to talk to the clinical psych don't I? Agh!

[Davros]

I think you should try refusing and say you haven't been doing X or Y, whether he understands or not. At one time the word "finished" was like magic with DS, I used it for all sorts of things, then something else worked that I can't remember. I did find that talking a LOT through a situation helped, then he became immune to that and I started talking very little and using lots more signs.... good luck!

[Jimjamskeepingoffvaxthreads]

We do refuse but then he just tries to force us to re-do the action. So he'll push and push and shove me to the dirty washing basket. Finished just makes him scream and hit himself/bite his hand (a new one). If I could tolerate the screaming it might work after a day or 2, but really not sure I can face it half term week- haven't got enough help in this week.

[Eulalia]

Was going to say don't let him in the bathroom but just read your post - he obviously has some sort of idea of how long you should be in there. Could you let him in and give him something to do in the bathroom? My ds loves cleaning the sink or would this just become part of the 'whole thing to be finished every time'. Also if he starts a meltdown I find it best to move completely away and distract with a job like cleaning the fluff out of the tumble drier.

With my ds it is slightly different - he has an idea of how a sequence of events should go and then gets upset when they don't. for him its definately an idea of the possibilities and more of an understanding of his environment.

Anyway why not give your ds a tickbox type of thing perhaps with picture of a toilet or whatever and then come out of the room and say "all finshed!" and get him to tick the picture of the toilet and this would distract him from feeling that the timing of it wasn't right and give a sort of 'closure' to the event.

[Eulalia]

Didn't make myself very clear there, I mean he has an idea of how they should go according to his own wants, not necessarily how they went previous times. Kind of difficult to predict what he may have in mind! I do find he gets a lot worse when I have rushed him.

[Jimjamskeepingoffvaxthreads]

No locks on the inside of the bathroom eulalia- he'd lock himself in. DS1 cannot be directed at all when he has somehting in mind (he can't at the best of times). I think he's like Davros' ds- in that you just cannot distract him.

He understands the word finished, but I don't think he could tick anything really. I have tried things like symbols velcroed to walls but ds1 just pulls them off (ds3 too).

TBH I think Davros is right, the only way I'm going to stop it is to ignore it and refuse to redo something, but I really really don't think I can face it this week.

[Eulalia]

I meant that you go into the bathroom together but if he can't be distracted then that is a problem. Hmmm - could you put dirty clothes somewhere else in the meantime so that he sees that there is no more clothes to be washed although I suppose it is giving in.

I was thinking of a clipboard type of thing he could carry around rather with spaces to tick or cross out, than the symbol being attached to the room/object. then he could see it being 'finished' while he takes it around with him but it's probably too abstract. My ds definately seems to have an imaginary clipboard in his mind as he seems to have to have done X, Y and Z before he can go to bed at night.. but not really helping am I.

[Jimjamskeepingoffvaxthreads]

I think the clipboard stuff is a bit beyond ds1 really. He won't even hold a pen except to scribble, and school are still working on geting him to follow simple symbol timetables. It is getting better at school but its taken them a long time to even get him to look at them, and I figure we'd have to put in the same effort here.

I wish I could hide my washing! He wets his bed every day so I have mountains. The pushing me into the bathroom thing was to make me sit on the toilet again btw- because he missed me first time round!

[Eulalia]

What is he doing when he misses seeing these activities? Would it help if he just did the end bit, ie fill up a bit of water in the bath so he can pull the plug out, flush the toilet rather than you have to sit on it etc... a bit cumbersome I know.

I remember ds howled once recenty when the taxi driver knocked on the door and he wnated to do it. Of course he didn't want to knock after he'd done it already and one thing you can't do is 'unknock' a door!