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Language for Thinking

(236 Posts)
lougle Fri 24-May-13 10:40:33

Poltergoose very kindly sent me LfT and I have been reading through it.

I have a question:

The assessment pages have shaded boxes in the different Language levels (ABC) next to various questions.

Are those shaded boxes indicating that the particular question is not scored for that level? Or that it is? Or something completely different? confused

There is no reference anywhere that I can see, to the significance of the shadings.

lougle Sat 25-May-13 22:13:57

I'll do that, definitely. It's so useful to have a plan at last.

Star -I might do that, thank you.

lougle Sun 26-May-13 15:00:10

Link to video of assessment


Many thanks in advance, Star.

Anyone else who has a copy of LfT is welcome to take a look, too!

ouryve Sun 26-May-13 15:22:52

Thanks - I'll have to watch that later. DS2's blasting the Chuggington iPad app in my ear, at the moment, and I can't hear a thing!

someoneoutthere Sun 26-May-13 15:45:10

Thanks moondog. Lougle, I will be watching that too.

Handywoman Sun 26-May-13 16:11:01

Oh Lougle! It is like watching my dd2 right down to the response to your initial question (a sigh and a heart sink at needing to produce expressive language) and the content, length of responses and sort of sentence construction - breathtakingly similar. Your dd2 processes language a bit quicker than my dd2 though, my dd2 eould spend longer coming up with an answer. Sorry Lougle, I know I have said it before, I am honestly not some kind of weirdo stalker(!) it is so interesting to see another child with such similar language.

Handywoman Sun 26-May-13 16:16:04

Also the mannerisms and trying to distract with a ooooh boing.

Love the 'you don't have to press the buttons on a puppet show' answer.

Has she seen an SLT yet or still waiting/saving up?

lougle Sun 26-May-13 17:50:33

Still waiting for NHS SALT to visit school. I wonder if I should get her to watch these videos? Probably wouldn't have time.

lougle Sun 26-May-13 21:23:46

So, any offerings of a score? It will be interesting to see if we score the same smile

ouryve Sun 26-May-13 21:39:01

I can't score until mine arrives - probably Wednesday. Bloody bank holidays!

DS1's older than your DD, but he has days when he'd give similar answers (and try to wriggle out of a few) and days when "what's the difference between a puppet and a dog?" would have him waxing philosophical, and probably giggling hysterically, for the rest of the day. The question about whether the people watching were enjoying it or not - he'd be more likely to impose his own feelings on it. If he decided that he felt negatively about puppet shows as an idea, then there is no way the people in the picture would ever enjoy a puppet show, now matter how wide the grins.

I don't have access to the book til after half term, but from memory I'll have a go.

Ok, 17 questions, only scoring the Why? not the 'Which is better?' etc. I made it 32. I don't have the assessment example responses in front of me though, so I might have been a bit off. smile

lougle Sun 26-May-13 22:28:25

17 questions because I forgot to ask when they went to the puppet show blush

I marked her with 36 in total. My gut instinct is that you've marked her correctly, though, because I don't think she's level C language, I really don't.

Mmmm...that's another question in itself. What happens if the answer is linguistically plausible but just plain odd?

For example, her answer that a puppet show was better because you don't have to switch on any buttons. It's true. You don't. A completely barmy answer as to why it would be better. One that most children would never have spring to mind, but she isn't most children wink.

So, what happens then? Do you accept it because it is linguistically plausible, or do you try and give a more 'mainstream' suggestion?

Seemed a little irrelevant and off the wall to me! But that describes our DC quite well. I marked it as a 2.

As an assessment I wouldn't be suggesting answers unless she'd got really stuck. The other 2 assessments are very similar so I wouldn't want to put words in their mouth.

During the 50 scenarios, I'd generally write down the responses without much comment then, at the end use anything that came up to start a discussion about what other answers there could be. Without suggesting the answers given were wrong at all.

She's seems to me to be borderline level B/C just going on the DC I used it with, who was a little stronger than your DD but 9yo and was level C. I started with the picture and read the story but soon progressed to him reading the story, he was a very good decoder. It actually made it easier for him to remember the details.

lougle Sun 26-May-13 23:01:22

Thanks EllenJane.

Bless her heart, I don't know what all the flopping on the sofa was! Probably stress/distraction. She smiles even more when she's stressed; it's odd.

She is very cute, Lougle. She worked very well for her mum.

lougle Sun 26-May-13 23:09:47

She did grin She is cute. Very cute.

lougle Sun 26-May-13 23:55:34

Isn't it strange, Handywoman, that our children are so alike?

Handywoman Mon 27-May-13 00:04:54

So unbelievably strange. I think my dd2 is level B although I have not assessed yet.

Relevance is a BIG target for dd2 in SLT. I think it is down to pragmatics, giving an answer that would be commonly understood. NOT my dd2's forte at all.

So uncanny that they are so alike. My own dd2 also hsd the cuteness and this is definitely a barrier to understanding her problems, for many professionals we meet.

I feel I should video my dd2 now, Lougle for you to see!

lougle Mon 27-May-13 07:36:15

Oh do! that's the really useful thing about the video, I think. The transcript is useful, but the video shows all the little mannerisms which go with it. The thing that strikes me with dd2 is that she uses the same tone for certain phrases.. it's like listening to a recording.

ouryve Mon 27-May-13 11:15:04

DS1 was funny when he was acquiring language, since so much of his initial communication was echolalic phrases learnt elsewhere. I could tell exactly who he was quoting because he almost perfectly mimicked that accent and pitch of their voice.

lougle Mon 27-May-13 11:27:28

Yes, DD1 was very much like that. I used to say that it was like she had a 'phrase bank' with shelves that she picked the phrases from, then said them in order. She will say ' 'sides and for startis, you didn't....' She's heard those phrases and put them together.

With DD2 it's it's like she's echolaic of herself, if that makes sense. Once she's established a phrase, then every time she says it, she uses the same mannerisms and tone each time. She doesn't seem to pick it up from other people...she just gets stuck in a particular mannerism and tone. It's not natural. It's often 'older' in style, despite her being quite young for her age in general (she's almost 6).

For example, she says 'I guess you're doing <x>, hey?'. Every time she says it, she cocks her head to the left and puts her hand on her left hip.

moondog Mon 27-May-13 19:11:33

She's very sweet Lougle and you are very patient and calm which is always a good thing. I can't give professional guidance over the Internet but the discussions going on around this language sample are really useful and the way in which I encourage classroom assistants and teachers to think and discuss. The point with LFT is that no two people will come up with the exact same score but this is fine. It is the discussion and thoughts generated which are so useful.

You will make a decision to start at a level and as you progress through it, you will see how she gets on and will be able to adjust accordingly. This process empowers the person doing LFT. I really know things are going well when staff approach me and say they want to go up/down a language level and/or module. I get them to explain to me why and they do. Lo and behold, it's always a data driven decision.

lougle Mon 27-May-13 19:19:06

Moondog, thanks for your comments smile You give so much of yourself here, so please don't think that you are being asked to over step your professional boundaries!

It's very helpful to discuss our children in the light of this tool - it gives an objectivity to our hunches about our children.

I did the first scenario with DD2 today. She scored a sketchy 11/18 on language level B. I'm not sure if I was a bit generous. It was very useful. Some questions she clearly understood, but wasn't able to articulate her reply sufficiently ie. 'They'll walk away' instead of 'they'll cross the road' or 'They'll go to the other side.' More open ended questions (Tell me about the story) she was completely unable to do, but instead focused on why it would be bad not to use the crossing.

It was really useful to view it on video too - so much fiddling and diversion tactics. It must be quite stressful to her.

moondog Mon 27-May-13 19:42:26

Video is such a useful tool-for both the tested and the tester.
As Star says, better to be the tough cop and score meanly.
You will always be of more help if you under estimate what a child can do rather than over estimate. As well as having a brutally honest baseline, the only way to go then is upwards.

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