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Language for Thinking

(236 Posts)
lougle Fri 24-May-13 10:40:33

Poltergoose very kindly sent me LfT and I have been reading through it.

I have a question:

The assessment pages have shaded boxes in the different Language levels (ABC) next to various questions.

Are those shaded boxes indicating that the particular question is not scored for that level? Or that it is? Or something completely different? confused

There is no reference anywhere that I can see, to the significance of the shadings.

moondog Fri 24-May-13 15:55:47

If you PM me I can give you some more info.
LFT is great but the instructions are poor.

StarlightMcKenzie Fri 24-May-13 16:54:07

Ooh Moondog, can I trial your measurement system for that other book you mentioned please?

Lougle I agree that the instructions are rubbish. But I've got to know the book quite well now and have decided that regardless of the assessments there are enough individual scenarios that I will just go through all of them for all stages anyway, as even the easy ones are sometimes opportunities for further talking and discussions. I felt after assessment that ds could still benefit from doing the easier ones first iyswim.

lougle Fri 24-May-13 17:44:52

Thank you, Moondog - you have mail smile

Star, isn't it nice to see a resource that doesn't claim to be imbued with a magical potion which can only be squeezed out by an expensive rare-breed 'professional' over a period of 20 years, but instead empowers the reader to help the child themselves? grin

Handywoman Fri 24-May-13 18:14:10

I wouldn't mind having some instructions, moondog. You sent me the assessment sheet but am not even sure how to start using LFT -thought I was being thick... Then we started SaLT so Kinda shelved <lazy> but I know I need to get cracking with it as dd2 needs a LOT of help. Can I PM you too?

moondog Fri 24-May-13 20:14:35

Yes Handy.
Instructions for it were too vague for me and believe me, I am the sort of manual bore who has them by the side of the bed for fun. grin

lougle Fri 24-May-13 20:41:44

I think, having read your crib sheet, moondog (thank you again!) that it's a case of the process being so logical, that the authors perhaps didn't remember they had lived and breathed the process for months on end by the time they wrote the manual grin.

ouryve Fri 24-May-13 22:00:33

isn't it nice to see a resource that doesn't claim to be imbued with a magical potion which can only be squeezed out by an expensive rare-breed 'professional' over a period of 20 years, but instead empowers the reader to help the child themselves?

No experience of LfT but yes, I've noticed that resources like this are alarmingly thin on the ground. And still bloody expensive.

ouryve Fri 24-May-13 22:04:19

And, having read the blurb, I'm ordering it to use with DS1! He really struggles with inference.

starfish71 Fri 24-May-13 22:29:44

Hi moondog, have the book but would really appreciate instructions if you are willing.

DisAstrophe Fri 24-May-13 23:00:42

Just ordered the book too! Might be a bit advance for ds but he sometimes surprises me with his ability to answer questions about picture books.

Hope people post with how they are getting on. Will not get mine for a few days.

lougle Fri 24-May-13 23:08:59

I did DD2's first assessment today.

It's very interesting to see how her mind works. All her answers were 'logical' when you picked through them, but the focus was so far out of where the 'average' person would.

Some examples:

The assessment was about a boy who visited the cinema with his mum.
The picture shows the audience in front of the cinema screen, which is displaying a film that features aliens.

Q: "What are the children looking at?"
A: 'The screen.'

I think DD3 would have said that they were looking at the aliens. DD2 was literal - they were looking at the screen. The fact that it showed aliens was irrelevant to her.

Q: "What's the difference between an alien and a dog?"
A: 'An alien has a planet, a dog doesn't. It has a house.'

I mean...well, yes, but there are so many differences between aliens and dogs. She chose where they live as the key one!

Q: "Which is better, TV or Cinema?"
A: 'Cinema'
Q: "Why?"
A: 'Because you don't have to switch on any buttons.'

Just grin.

StarlightMcKenzie Fri 24-May-13 23:14:34


DS answered the difference between a dog and an alien as:

A dog only has two eyes.

So there you go.

In response to your previous post, yes it is very refreshing to have something that isn't presented as mysterious and incapable of being delivered by someone without years of in house tea drinking training., - and that hasn't been deliberately made to be complicated to pander to the egos of supposed 'professionals'.

lougle Fri 24-May-13 23:15:31

At least your DS focused on the alien itself and not the habitat! grin

moondog Sat 25-May-13 09:11:30

I'm not interested in interventions if they can't be administered by reasonable intelligent non speech and language therapists. Unless I end up in a job whereby I am with a very small group of children with communication issues for most of the day (highly unlikely) there is absolutely no point in me being the only one to know how to run something.

S/lts are encouraged to work to a consultancy model which is a good thing I think. However that means you have to give those who work with the child a detailed, data driven intervention that all parties can understand. When you do that, it works like a dream. I went to see a fantastic classroom assistant yesterday. The programme we have set up and the data kept means that within 5 minutes I could see exactly what the child had done, is doing and will do and how said child getting on every step of the way. Everyone is happy-me, assistant, child, SENCO, teacher, parents. I see this assistant and child about twice a term for about 30 minutes each time.

Star (and anyone else), message me for details of LFT tracker..

Ineedmorepatience Sat 25-May-13 09:21:31

Someone mentioned LFT to me a while ago and I tried to get school to buy it to do with Dd3 but they wouldnt sad

I might have to buy it myself. Dd3's higher language skills or lack of them are really holding her back now.

I love, love, love LfT. I used it at school for 3 years and my DS used it at his school. I found it extremely enlightening and it gave me so much insight into how my charge's mind worked and it gave me lots of direction on what areas to work on. My charge was very articulate and this masked his pretty serious deficits. At 10 this articulate and expressive child could only say that the difference between an alien and a dog was that a dog was a bit smaller. Give him odd one out cards and he could always choose the correct one. Ask him to explain why, he just couldn't. Lots of practice at describing similar features and uses and he slowly improved.

moondog Sat 25-May-13 18:17:41

I hope it went out to everyone who asked for it.
Had a lot of requests so it's gone out in groups of three or four.
Let me know if I missed anyone out who messaged me. smile

Handywoman Sat 25-May-13 18:32:26

thank you so much, moondog – absolutely brilliant x

starfish71 Sat 25-May-13 19:57:57

Thank you moondog, fantastic smile

moondog Sat 25-May-13 21:04:38

Ok, sent off the next batch.
Hope all arrived safely.
In throes of bbq and wine has been taken so cannot guarantee safe departure. grin

lougle Sat 25-May-13 21:29:25

The hardest thing for me, I think, is that I'm so used to interpreting DD2's language, that I have to stop myself and think 'would it make sense if I didn't know how DD2 uses language?' because most of it does make sense to me despite the grammar being painfully wrong.

moondog Sat 25-May-13 21:51:06

That's an important point. It has to be (if possible) robust enough to stand alone without Mum or Dad interpreting.

StarlightMcKenzie Sat 25-May-13 22:04:10

You could record each short session and then watch it later or get someone else to score it to check against yours?

You could send me a clip to score if you like (though I'm harsh on ds I think as I prefer to ensure gaps are filled rather than give the benefit of the doubt often).

moondog Sat 25-May-13 22:09:28

If you follow my protocol (assess then debrief up to three times) and also take notes on each answer on each assessment procedure, you will see responses improving.

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