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Help needed

(31 Posts)
CyrstalStar Thu 23-May-13 14:11:07

Please can anyone tell me what the difference Iain terms of help at a mainstream school between having an IEP and being on school action or school action plus. It may not be a clear cut difference so forgive me if this is not making sense. My ds is getting an IEP but no SChool action . Does this mean any less help will be offered, is it about no outside help. Please can someone explain. Thank you

PolterGoose Thu 23-May-13 16:06:19

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

StarlightMcKenzie Thu 23-May-13 16:13:02

TBH I wouldn't pay too much attention to SA or SA plus if he has a good, SMART IEP that you contributed towards and good quality appropriate intervention.

SA and SA+ are just lists. Lists don't raise attainment or meet needs, adequate targetted provision does.

StarlightMcKenzie Thu 23-May-13 16:14:15

And there is no hierarchy. You don't need to be on either SA or SA+ first to request and then get a statement.

PolterGoose Thu 23-May-13 16:17:54

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

crazeelaydee Thu 23-May-13 16:30:17

Hello, I think it's already been answered really but here we go;

There are stages of support to try and help children with special educational needs.

If your child is getting the help they need and they’re learning well, there’s no need for them to go on to the next stage.-debateable.

If your child has high needs, they won’t need to go through earlier stages of support and can get an assessment straight away. The stages are:

Early Years Action/School Action.

Early Years Action Plus/School Action Plus.


Statement of special educational needs.

##Early Years Action (nursery setting)/School Action

Your child’s teachers or SENCO will discuss your child’s needs with you and decide what help to give. You should be asked about the help your child is given and its results.

This could mean a different way of teaching certain things, or some help from an extra adult.

Early Years Action Plus (nursery setting)/School Action Plus

This is extra help from an external specialist, eg a speech therapist, educational psychologist, occupational therapist.

Assessments (towards statement)

An assessment of special educational needs is carried out by the local council. Experts and people involved in your child’s education will be asked about your child’s needs and what should be done to meet them.


A statement of special educational needs describes your child’s needs and how they should be met, including what school they should go to.

Further education

If your child has a statement of special educational needs, he or she will have a ‘transition plan’ drawn up in Year 9. This helps to plan for their future after leaving school.

Your local authority will make sure that your child gets the support they need and will work with social services before your child leaves school.

If your child needs to go to an independent specialist college after leaving school, your local authority has a duty to fund their place.

CyrstalStar Thu 23-May-13 19:32:00

Thanks for these helpful replies. I wish I knew as much as you do. I'm ploughing through the code of practice slowly. So I should be happy school have offered an IEP for my hfa Ds or at least wait and see if it actually helps him. The school say that they have no funding to do anything else. Before the school knew about his HFA diagnosis they already gave him small group help as his levels are a low at 1b in year 2. So are half of the boys in the class who are NT. They also recognise his needs socially and have said they will try help in with friends at playtime etc. Do you think this is adequate ? Also the nhs have referred us to a SALT. He struggles to follow instructions and has very poor verbal communication. But as the school day is so structured they say they see him struggling at times in class but mostly he is conforming due to the rigid routine and as everyone else in the class is doing it he follows suit. I think he is struggling a lot more than they realise. When he comes home he is being very violent when tasks such as bed, bath, cleaning, etc are needing to be done. Am I expecting too much from the school to want them to be doing more, such as assistance from autism advisory. Also I'm not sure the school are telling me the truth as apparently he has been having group sessions for a while and is on the sen register but I knew nothing about this. It has only been recently that I have asking for his levels etc and told them about the diagnosis and suddenly they have been doing all this stuff for ages.

StarlightMcKenzie Thu 23-May-13 19:37:29

No. An IEP isn't of any use to your ds unless it is both SMART and adhered to.

DS is in his 5th school placement and I have never seen a SMART IEP though I'm told that some schools do know how to do them.

The R in SMART should mean relevant. It is all very well teaching your ds how to open the girls toilet door, but that will never be useful to him for example. And no point teaching him how to tie shoe laces if he needs to learn how to put his shoes on.

StarlightMcKenzie Thu 23-May-13 19:58:16

YOU can ask for the school file under the data protection act, as well as any communications or information held electronically.

If his difficulties/deficits are mostly at playtime then this is where his education needs to be prioritised. What are they doing to not only ensure he is safe at this time and coping, but actively learning social skills, participating etc. If he is struggling to follow instructions, what work is being done on this, how regularly and by whom?

This should be the information in the IEP.

CyrstalStar Thu 23-May-13 20:19:39

That's Star..upon our next meeting after half term I'm going to ask them all this. Thank you.

CyrstalStar Thu 23-May-13 20:22:22

Starlightmckenzie I forgot to say someone told me to come on mumsnet when I was seeking advice for private diagnosis months ago, I cannot remember who now but they said you knew a lot and I could find you on here!

StarlightMcKenzie Thu 23-May-13 20:23:07

I know the same as you, just a few years down the line.

You'll see. grin wink

CyrstalStar Thu 23-May-13 20:49:49


Handywoman Thu 23-May-13 20:51:11

I think SA and SA+ and IEP may give a false impression as to the level of 'need' or the amount of intervention. My dd2 has been on SA+ for 2years, now has an IEP which all looks fine. But what is needed more than anything is a supportive head teacher who has an ethos of actually giving a monkeys and not make a song and dance about the most mediocre accommodations. I ended up writing to the school Govs just to have the timer removed from tasks on the online education portal. True Actual Fact.

That said, if the eventual outcome is application for SA, I think it is helpful to have evidence that some sort of 'graduated response' has taken place showing school has already tried lots of things.

CyrstalStar Thu 23-May-13 21:39:16

Head teacher really doesn't care about her sen children that is a well known fact. Sadly.

CyrstalStar Thu 23-May-13 21:41:52

She cares about how well her school is performing statistically and that's it. It's a huge school that is now more like a business than anything else. It has lower than average special needs children in it although it is a much larger than average school.

crazeelaydee Thu 23-May-13 22:46:07

Hello again, My Ds's behaviour at home rapidly deteriorated in yr 1 + 2 (very out of character) I later found out this was due to a lack of support in the class room, the CT's were not using the strategies/suggestions given from the outside agencies yet he had an help everyone involved but they chose to ignore it confused. After I started to 'shout' (my DS's GP told me he who shouts loudest gets results - long story!grin) he began to improve again at home, and also at school. Since then I have been told to use his reactions when he comes home as a sign of if things are being done properly at school hmm. I obviously don't know if this would be the same for your DS but after finding out things which have been used as strategies to help my DS and watching him at home it rings true for him.

Badvoc Fri 24-May-13 09:04:27

IEPs are just admin lists ime.
Help your child yourself.
Good luck

CyrstalStar Fri 24-May-13 09:45:13

Thanks all. I'm trying to work out if its coping with school that's causing the issues at home or not. It's only when he needs to do something like clean teeth, bath, dress, etc. the house is being wrecked and I'm really at my witts end with being hit. This morning he punched me on the nose when I was in bed before I had even virtually opened my eyes. He had come into my bed and taken my phone at 6am to play a game on it I woke at 7am and took the phone from him as we needed to get up and that was his reaction. I just said no phone until we have everything else done and your ready for school. Then bumf right on the nose, it's amazing how hard a 6 year old can actually hit I'm learning. Throwing and hitting carried on all morning in spurts of having to change activity. IS THIS NORMAL or is it me. My dh doesn't cope well and he is blaming me saying its my fault and I'm a crap mother! I have lots of family who support me but I've cried my eyes out this morning. When my ds behaves like this I try to ignore it if I can but sometimes it's not possible and I firmly tell him he must not do this or that and that if he is angry he can go and sit quietly somewhere until he feels better. It takes about 25 mins to get him upstairs to clean his teeth each morning, sometimes I have to actually use every bit if strength in my body to lift him against his will when we are going to be late for school. My dh just gets angry with him and shouts at him and smacks his bum but this makes it worse . I've told dh that he can't do that, I'm trying to teach him not to be violent and he is showing aggression at him when he is shouting , I mean really shouting, it's scary, and smacking him. How do u teach a child to stop being violent like that. Anyhow dh says if I was more like that he would stop and I need to get some balls. Tbh ds did stop smashing up the house when his dad came down like the Incredible Hulk and went biserk at him. I just think that dealing with him like that won't help in the end. I don't know what to do. Any advice even if its negative towards me I would like to hear . Thanks

StarlightMcKenzie Fri 24-May-13 10:02:44

All activities that he likes i.e phone, pens even if he likes drawing, put out of reach.

EVERYTHING he likes has to be earned and given to him by you.

At first he'll go crazy but as soon as you get that first 10 seconds of calm give him what he wants immediately.

DS understands that 10mins is longer that 5 so if he wants something and I say 'in a minute' and he screams/hits whatever. I say, right, '5 minutes', if he continues, 'right 10mins' etc. and I stick to it.

I also have a thinking step. If I ask him to go and he refuses or argues (just once) then it is 'right bed'. If he refuses it is 'ds go to bed on own or mummy help?'. Next step is pjs on, then ds do pjs on own or mummy do it?.

So we have a scaled list of progressively worse consequences, but they have been chosen to cooincide with what matters to him. He would never behave for stickers for example.

PolterGoose Fri 24-May-13 10:08:52

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

StarlightMcKenzie Fri 24-May-13 10:18:54

And everything PG said.

You do know you're not a shit parent don't you. Your DH is probably just deflecting because he is struggling like you.

You can get on top of the behaviour, but you'll have to find the information to do so and once you have decided on a strategy stick with it for some time, and if possible measure the outcomes. Your DH will have to support you or stay out of the way though. You can't be undermined.

Badvoc Fri 24-May-13 10:50:22

You aren't a shit parent.
Listen to star and pg.

CyrstalStar Fri 24-May-13 11:17:57

Thanks for all your support its amazing how much this site helps me. I think I do know I'm not a shit parent and dh putting me down is not a new thing so I expect it really. It's just when things are so wrong and someone is constantly in your ear about crap u r sometimes u question yourself. And because he is worse with me I think that's why I worried. I just had a really bad morning. I don't want to feel sorry for me though that's selfish I need to get on with it. There's many parents in my boat and the main issue is my ds not how rubbish I feel. I'm going to take on board all of your comments. I have been thinking to do the routine thing on laminated card I will get it sorted over half term. Obvs the routine that is mainly verbal is not working and why would it. I'm going to look at that book poltergoose-thx. I do remove the phone out of his sight, sometimes he is too quick and gets it then throws it across the room when I ask for it back or go to get it back. He does not have game time until he is ready for school. I will try getting him to be calm for the phone back as we just have major meltdowns then he gets the phone nine times out of ten on way to school, but def only after he is ready and we have done everything. However it then takes 15 mins to get it back at school and then sometimes another hitting session. Just frustration I guess. I haven't done an early bird course or know about autism outreach. Will look into it. Dh has been to most of meetings about ds. He is just not a understanding person most of the time. I think he has anger issues himself actually. Never have they been directed at ds though but I guess now ds is pushing his buttons it is different. I'm
Going to find a strategie like the ones above and stick to it. Ill just have to ignore dh hopefully it will get better and he will see. Thanks all I really appreciate all your valuable advice and help when feeling so low x

NeedToMoan Fri 24-May-13 11:26:19

Hiya bless you, it doesn't help when the DH isn't on board. I don't think my DH is fully taken on board that our son has ASD yet. In some ways, he is fantastically good with him and much better at taking him out than I am and a good practical help at home but with DS at home, aaagh. Unfortunately, my DH is quite sensitive to noise (trait?!!) and my DS is NOISY, but much of it I think is involuntary and although it drives me crazy, what drives me even more crazy is DH droning, "DS be quiet" "DS too much noise". I have joked that I will buy DH some ear defenders but I'm only half joking really. We are booked to go on Early Bird course in Sept and I think that will give my DH a much better insight into what is really going on here. We are also waiting to see if DS will get a place at special school and hopefully this will reduce his anxiety levels. You have to keep talking about it, maybe start printing some info off for him, just a few pages at a time so he can start to understand a bit better. I feel your pain though. It's early days since our diagnosis so I am being patient with DH but I won't be patient forever.

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