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Anyone else going to the EABG next week?

(118 Posts)
StarlightMcKenzie Fri 22-Mar-13 12:29:44

Looks like I'm going to be running from room to room all day but I'm about to colour in my programme and find the break slots.

Is anyone interested in meeting up? I'll be the one who is NOT SCARY! grin

moondog Fri 22-Mar-13 20:25:34

Nice to have a local to show the yokels about.
Shame you Londoners don't have an MSc in ABA course down there in the big smoke though and need the hicks to lead the way.

MareeyaDolores Fri 22-Mar-13 20:36:59

Am ridiculously excited to be able to talk 'evidence' with you lot in person grin. At the moment am going to have to be Cinderella leaving tuesday's ball at 3pm though... need a serious word with dh hmm

StarlightMcKenzie Fri 22-Mar-13 20:38:10

I just can't wait to hear blogman!

moondog Fri 22-Mar-13 20:42:16

Star did you not hear him actually speak formally last time?
Maryeea, I have a posse of p/g pstudents working with me on the stuff we learnt about when we met. V exciting.

StarlightMcKenzie Fri 22-Mar-13 20:52:26

No. I don't know why but I didn't.

MareeyaDolores Fri 22-Mar-13 21:09:47

Evidence-based CAMHS society is probably the way to crack the over-specialised, rather fragmented London academic psychology scene. There's so much expertise in minutiae that a generalist approach like ABA hasn't got an obvious 'home'. Would personally really love to see it in the philosophy-heavy Institute of Education <cackle>.

StarlightMcKenzie Fri 22-Mar-13 21:10:51


Never in a million years, - though the idiot that was, has moved on.......

StarlightMcKenzie Fri 22-Mar-13 21:11:59

Gone to bury his head in the psychotherapy world where it always was

MareeyaDolores Sat 23-Mar-13 08:22:06

He'll be needing to become evidence-based these days then, and subject his pet theories to testing <evil grin>

moondog Sat 23-Mar-13 08:27:31

The most surreal thing of all is that in the publically funded 'caring' sector, it's as if it's only just struck people that they need to be proving that waht they are doing has an effect. The fact that you are doing something in itself has until now, been seen to be proof enough. hmm

I think I told you Maryeea about the s/lt conference I went to.
I was looking over some social skills interventions for teens and asked the author how one measured effectiveness and she looked at me as if I was mad 'Oh no, you don't' she said 'You just do it'.
Then I saw a book on yoga for autistic kids, and lost the will to live and went home.
How bloody insulting it all is to people who need help.
Here's a quote from that website you linked to

'In the changing NHS, in voluntary organisations
and in social care systems, demonstrating and
improving the effectiveness of what we do as
clinicians has never been more important.'

Really??! One would never have thought so! hmm

bochead Sat 23-Mar-13 08:52:46

Head of my locale's clinical pysch services.

Course he uses lots of long words and grave sighs, etc, when intimidating mere teachers, and condesending to parents. cos he's very important. His knowledge base is so extensive he has no need to even meet the child before pronouncing judgment.

However I'm onto him, I KNOW what happened to Alf Garnett when he was taken off the air ; )

He's had elecution lessons of course but still "evidence round 'ere- go on gerrout!"

Country Hicks are sorely needed!

moondog Sat 23-Mar-13 09:10:06

<grave sighs>
Yes I know the sort.
Cocking head to one side while asking searching questions then nodding and hmmming vigorously (the occasional 'absolutely!' doesn't go amiss either) also deflects attention from the fact that
1. you are talking crap
2. you don't even know the kid in question

moondog Sat 23-Mar-13 09:12:08

It maikes me laugh (it has to or I would cry).
Total house of cards/Emporer's New Clothes scenario

As people often say on here, how refreshing it would be if just sometimes people said 'I'm sorry, I'm totally out of my depth here so I won't waste your time nad mine by pretending to know what to do about it. Can we all look at the situation again and start from the bottom?'

sickofsocalledexperts Sat 23-Mar-13 09:19:57

I think I have the worst case now Moondog.

There is a school being set up near me on TEACCH/eclectic principles. Their bid has blown a proposed ABA school out of the water.

And what system is the leading light of the TEACCH proposal using to educate her own kid?

Aba of course.

It is worse than politicians who espouse comprehensive schools for all, then quietly send their own child to Eton.

bochead Sat 23-Mar-13 09:28:22

Thing is the version of TEACCH we see here in the UK (esp in mainstream) bears NO relation whatsoever to the pedagogy and techniques used in the original setting. As it's an American system I'm often confused as to why the Brits haven't been sued yet for bringing a reasonably effective methodology into total disrepute.

There is a special reserved loathing space in my heart for "eclectic" just in front of "holistic". The minute I hear either of those phrases in a meeting I know my kid is about to be screwed over.

sickofsocalledexperts Sat 23-Mar-13 09:34:49

Yes Bochead

I think eclectic could be loosely translated as "throw any old shit in, at least it livens up the day a bit for the teachers"

StarlightMcKenzie Sat 23-Mar-13 10:19:21

Bochead I use 'eclecting' and 'holistic' before they do these days.

When I am asking for something specific, I insist that without it his holistic needs will not be met for example.

Try it. It throws them as 'holistic' is usually their defence.

bochead Sat 23-Mar-13 10:45:01

How can you keep a straight face as you say it Star?

I'm honestly starting to wonder if it's an ASD trait of my own not to be able to restrain my gurning.

Holistic should only be applied to describe woo woo retreats in Carthmenshire or Morrocco. Eclectic whose use should be forbidden to everyone but cavat wearing interior designers. TEACCH should involve active teaching. Executive head teachers should be renamed overpaid vegetable gardening administrators, and any school that appoints one should instantly be failed by Oftstead for bringing the profession into disrepute.

moondog Sat 23-Mar-13 11:05:43

Hahaha at all of these comments!
Sickof, that is bloody unbelievable. You must tell me more when I see you.
I am morally unable to advocate anything for anyone else's child that I would not advocate for my own. That eliminates instantly about 90% of what is offered by the SEN industry.
Star has a very good point-throw all of this jargon back at them to describe what you want and are doing. It confuses them and gets them on your side.

Remember what Nixon said-better to have people in your tent pissing out than out pissing in.

StarlightMcKenzie Sat 23-Mar-13 12:45:35

When I hear the word 'eclectic' I hear 'No-one actually knows' and expect the next words to be 'Light Orchestra'.

TBH, I have found that the term 'ABA' is often considered synonomous with 'undesirable', and 'eclectic' with 'desirable'. I couldn't give a frig what whatever I want is called, so I just call it their preferred term. Particularly given that they rarely know what 'eclectic' even means in concrete terms and certainly haven't a clue what ABA means.

StarlightMcKenzie Sat 23-Mar-13 12:47:16

Moondog, some of the spat between the two schools was played out on MN. It was quite shocking actually, especially as the key bod opening the TEACHH school openly admitted to doing ABA with her own child.

I guess for some, power and control and crucially 'funding' is more important than approach.

StarlightMcKenzie Sat 23-Mar-13 12:50:07

That's a relief Mareeya but I bet he'll get to retirement before any of this is actually embedded practice.

StarlightMcKenzie Sat 23-Mar-13 12:51:46

The thing is. People can argue with ABA as a word, but not as a concept, and not when you call it holistic.

moondog Sat 23-Mar-13 12:53:38

Was it?
Crikey, I missed that one.
Because of prejudice against ABA (although not in the places I work) some recommend using data driven evidence based practice because that is all that ABA is.

When I was looking for suitable schools for my dd I interviewed headteachers and SENCOs and the first question I asked was what evidence based data driven practice they used.
He asked me what that meant.
Silently I punched the air because that was exactly what I wanted him to say in that it provided me there and then with enough evidence to tell the (very good) LEA that I wasn't sending my child to a school where the head displayed such an embarrassing attitude and lack of knowledge.

There was no argument whatsoever. grin

bochead Sat 23-Mar-13 12:54:46

Ethics just past common sense on the way out sad

I'm sure the rare good professionals I've come across think I'm nuts, as it's so hard to hide my overwhelming relief/exitement/amazement.

(Wanders off to practice her poker face)

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