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Can I vent about DD3?

(25 Posts)
lougle Wed 20-Mar-13 16:02:33

Not strictly SN, I know, as she's NT. I just don't know what to do with her. She's 3.11 now. She's lovely, clever, charming with peers and adults alike. Ahead of her years in all areas of development. So far so good.

She's incredibly controlling. If I say the wrong thing at the wrong time, the whole game is ruined. If I don't let her do what she wants, when she wants it, she goes into meltdown. If I don't notice that she did something at the exact moment she did it, ditto. If I breathe in the wrong direction, it seems.

At school today, waiting for DD2, she started playing with a boy's scooter. I watched, and could see he wanted it back. I walked across the playground and said 'DD3, that boy would like his scooter back.' She said he had let her use it. She said 'do you want it back?' the boy said yes. She gave it back, then pushed me.

We went to the classroom, DD3 started playing with the sand. The same sand I've told her 100 times that she is not allowed to touch. I asked her 3 times to come away. I told her that if she didn't come away, she wouldn't be able to hold our chicks. She blatantly ignored me, dodging me to get to the sand box. Every time I came close, she dodged away and laughed. I finally told her that when we got home, DD2 would have two packets of haribo sweets and she would have none.

Sweets are the only thing she cares about.

She proceeded to throw handfuls of sand at me, then I picked her up. She was bucking and writhing in my arms. Eventually, promised to be sensible. As soon as I put her down, she was pushing and hitting me. I held her firmly by the hand, no words, no eye contact. She dropped to the floor several times on the way back to the car, then accused me of dragging her to the ground. I managed to get her back to the car.

I was clipping her in her seat and she spat at me. Several times.

I've come home, given DD2 the two packets of sweets. DD3 has gone wild. Hitting me, kicking me, pushing me, shoving me.

I've put her in DD1's room to cool down (it has a stairgate on) but she keeps climbing over.

She's got balls of brass sad

silverfrog Wed 20-Mar-13 16:10:23

She sounds, um, spirited.

It all sound very much how dd2 used to be at 3. Dh and I were fondly reminiscing just the other day hmm and I was reminded that actually we went to the States to see Growing Minds because of dd2 and her controlling ways... She is still volatile, and everything is brilliant or awful. It is exhausting, and we are frequently walking on eggshells.

She is the tiniest, sweetest little thing according to everyone else. If you ask me, she's demonic.

Like dd1, she reserves the best of it for me. A dubious honour!

lougle Wed 20-Mar-13 16:12:16

She's currently screaming at me that she has calmed down hmm

This could be a long afternoon. 40 minutes in and no signs of slowing.

lougle Wed 20-Mar-13 16:13:40

Thanks silverfrog, sorry I forgot my manners then blush

The thing is, she is 3 and she threatens me with ultimatums shock

silverfrog Wed 20-Mar-13 16:17:03

Ah yes. The scream of "BUT I AM CALM!" I know it so well.

Daphne Keen is currently considering whether she will see us hmm. I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

lougle Wed 20-Mar-13 16:25:40

1 hour in, she's asking for a cuddle.

lougle Wed 20-Mar-13 16:27:46

I'd laugh, Silverfrog. It comes to something when a prof you have to pay will only 'consider' seeing you grin

Galena Wed 20-Mar-13 16:29:51

DD is 3.10 and similar although not QUITE so extreme. She has CP but it is purely physical effects and is also ahead of her peers in a number of ways. She will do something she knows is wrong and when I give her an ultimatum she will continue doing it and then scream when I dish out the consequences.

How is she with reward charts? Would she respond to 'When we pick up DD1, if you don't touch the sand then you'll get a star when you get home and 10 stars = treat of some sort'? DD has to have physio and sometimes doesn't want to cooperate. She also has her moments not going to bed nicely. She now gets a star for physio and a star for going to bed. 10 stars = £1...

bassingtonffrench Wed 20-Mar-13 16:30:24

sounds reminiscent of my allegedly NT 4 year old. yy only cares about sweets.

sometimes the way he speaks to me and his tone of voice is frightening. it is as if he has seen and heard awful things, but he really hasn't.

he has improved enormously over the last year so there is hope.

FWIW I definitely use sweets as a bribe, but never involving a sibling. I would have said, if you come away from the sand, you can have a sweet. during our worst periods I would have a ready supply. only one, not the whole packet and given immediately, regardless of what anyone else thinks.

PolterGoose Wed 20-Mar-13 16:30:33

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

lougle Wed 20-Mar-13 16:38:29

She's still screaming, but cuddling me as she cries. She wants Daddy.

I think right now, reward chart would be a big step - she knows full well that what she's doing is wrong, but her need to be the boss overtakes the consequence of her actions. I think she just has to win, if you know what I mean.

Afterwards, she's genuinely remorseful, knows exactly what she did wrong, what she should have done, etc.

Good idea for immediate sweet reward. Perhaps I need to start that. I don't really like the idea of rewarding what is basic behaviour, in general. But perhaps in this case I'm going to have to set aside my principles.

She starts school in September. At the moment, she goes to montessori, clicks her fingers and says 'Miss X, can I do work with you, please?' and they do. It might be shock when she's one of 30 <quiver>

bassingtonffrench Wed 20-Mar-13 16:45:23

Yes, I was against rewarding what I saw as basic good behaviour, but I was actually advised by our friendly GP to start using 'doggie drops' which made me feel better about it!

She sounds very bright!

silverfrog Wed 20-Mar-13 17:23:27

yes, lougle, I am inclined towards laughing, but it's been a tough week...

I am all too familiar with the charming, precocious, sweet natured pre-schooler getting the world to revolve around them - dd2 did it throughout her pre-school year (despite me telling her key workers exactly what she would try, and how, she still managed to get them to do what she wanted, by asking nicely, smiling lots, and being engaging hmm)

my dd2 is currently sobbing her heart out in the playroom, as I caught her sneaking bits of biscuit she had made in school yesterday (she is allowed one after tea), and nstead of being cross I was calmly disappointed - this has absolutely devastated her confused. I was only not cross because we are trying to stop the lies (she is all too ready to bend the truth to suit), and I was nice as pie about it. this, apparently, is worse than me being cross...

rewarding instant good behaviour was one of the thigns we did with dd2 as well - we worked hard to find alternatives to sweets (one success we had was one of those clicker tally counter things, in her favourite colour, to count up how many Xs we saw on the way home - usually in a 'bet you don't see more of them than me' kind of way as she does love to win <sigh>) keeping her engaged was half the battle, as then at least she wasn't trying to gain our attention in a negative way.

MareeyaDolores Wed 20-Mar-13 23:40:20

Sounds exactly like dd at that age. Far more controlling than ASD ds1. And allegedly NT hmm

MareeyaDolores Wed 20-Mar-13 23:47:51

This book helped me a bit as did the 'control' chapter in schramm. DD is sandwiched between DS1 with ASD and ADHD, and DS2 (possibly same diagnoses, but perhaps its full-on wilfulness confused). So I also started to try & give her intermittent random unearned nice attention /rewards, as I think she gets a bit neglected at times, which probably doesn't help.

MareeyaDolores Wed 20-Mar-13 23:51:07

silverfrog, you must've borrowed my dd to drop off at preschool grin

coff33pot Thu 21-Mar-13 00:08:02

oooh Lougle I hope all is well by now and she is sleeping soundly.

I have a feeling this 3/4 year boundry testing phase hits a lot of homes mine included 3 times over grin

Its hell and I sympathise with you greatly.

I will give you a giggle in amongst the seriousness of it all smile

When eldest dd was same age as yours she directly went and kicked her dad in the shins just because he decided to claim her chair as she was not in it.

Refused to apologise and was sent to the third step in the hall for "thinking time"

Few minutes passed and a fav TV programme of hers came on and she decided to sneak round the door and mention it.

"OK said dad you have had your thinking time and yes you can watch the TV but I am waiting for a little word from you first?"

DD promptly raised her eyes to the ceiling and loudly said "I think I am going back to sit on the stairs!" walked off and sat herself down on the step.

That was her way of saying there was no way she was going to say sorry lol

zzzzz Thu 21-Mar-13 06:05:06

My gut feeling is that rewards don't work at all with some children, they just become a new battle ground for you. sad the same with threats really. If your child is quite savvy then everything just escalates.

That's not to say there shouldn't be consequences, just that the child should be oing things because she wants to please you and be good, not for sweets, so when you add the sweets it takes the focus from "pleasing Mummy" to "getting sweets for MW". The upshot of which is ever more self gratifying behaviour.

PolterGoose Thu 21-Mar-13 07:17:34

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

zzzzz Thu 21-Mar-13 09:06:50

I know polt I probably wasn't very coherent. What I was trying to say is that for some children (not all and certainly not all of mine), the reward/sanction set up just becomes just another area of contention. Negotiations about how much they are getting, a weighing up of if they think it is enough or care about that, bartering, refusing to participate without reward, pushing of all just escalates and doesn't help.

If star charts and sweeties work, and can be phased out over time leaving you with the desired behaviour then they are a good solution. If however they only work if they are endlessly bigger and involve more and more negotiation and cajoling then I think they aren't a good solution at all.

I am an environment manipulator, with the clear aim of manipulating the individuals in that environment. We have rewards and sanctions but they are not my preferred method of control.

In an ideal world the behaviour I want leads to an easier quicker route to the things the child wants. It is entirely to their benefit to behave.

PolterGoose Thu 21-Mar-13 09:23:57

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

coff33pot Thu 21-Mar-13 12:53:56

Yes it is complicated mix isnt it smile

I tend to reward the good at random so they are unsuspecting of it coming.

Eldest DD would just plain march off to the step but she wasnt the most sociable child anyway and there were no other children around for her to battle with till she was 11 then she was the mini mother instead.

Middle dd has up to 12 been great, no issues and an angel by comparison to most! BUTTTT she has now found her teen voice lol and we have a battle of wills and sanctions/consequences put in place that we didnt have to do before so it has been different with this one!

DS ....well rewards work if he doesnt see them coming iyswim. Random "thanks for being a great son today" swells his pride a bit. or "wow I have filled my washing machine thanks to you sitting and drawing that great picture lets have a slice of cake together!" that sort of thing. Just random off the cuff praise and a treat that could well be the norm but we are doing it together smile

Rewards for "if you dont stop you will not have sweets" etc dont work. Because if he is fixated on something or stressed out he will just say "no thanks" or "I dont want to do that anyway" he really doesnt see the issue to hand as to why he should stop and he would rather follow through his mission and take the consequence!

Its tough and every childs mannerisms are so different. I think sometimes there are just days where hell will break loose and us parents just have to ride it out )

LadyLuck10 Fri 21-Nov-14 23:54:03


greener2 Sat 22-Nov-14 15:06:54

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

lougle Sat 22-Nov-14 21:31:21

Hi greener smile Do you mean my DD3? I had to do a double take when I saw this thread!

I think she's NT but highly strung. She's a lot better now. I've learned that she gets very stressed with too much choice. She's frightened of choosing the wrong thing.

Interestingly, she's taking a lot longer to pick up reading than I expected -she's in Year 1 of school now and is still on red books. I was a bit puzzled and frustrated until I realised that it's the same thing -she doesn't want to commit to saying a word in case it isn't right. She's remarkably creative and louvres to draw and write, but screws her paper up if the image she had in her head doesn't go on paper as she planned.

In terms of behaviour, I have found that not appearing to care is what works. She can't cope with the emotional burden of my disappointment, I think. So if she isn't getting dressed, I encourage a bit, but then I simply say 'ok DD3. Get dressed; don't get dressed. I don't mind either way. But at 8.30am we'll be leaving for school and I'll take you in whatever you're wearing. So it's up to you if you go to school in your uniform or your pyjamas.

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