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Is it true if you home educate you lose the statement?

(32 Posts)
bjkmummy Wed 20-Feb-13 17:27:49

someone has just said this to me - slightly panicked me as if we lose the tribunal plan is to move into the next county which may take a few months to sort out so want to home educate whilst we get things sorted out - the thought of losing the statement for the sake of a few months is a bit worrying! im sure its not true - i know the risk is that OT and SALT are now written into his statement and the LA would not have to provide that whilst he is home educated but i just thought the statement stood as it was and you still had annual reviews. we would only be talking probably 6 months here anyway we would be home educating - hes been out of school so far for mcuh longer due to not being able to cope with school!

StarlightMcKenzie Wed 20-Feb-13 17:36:20

No. I don't think so, but the LA are exempt from providing the provision in it.

It's a bit complicated though because technically you don't have the same rights as a parent with a non-statemented child and you are obliged by law to send them to the placement named in part 4. If you don't, the LA can take legal action (don't know of ANY cases where this has happened, - but they might threaten it if you start to demand the provision written in it to be delivered at home).

So you see, it is a bit complicated.

Just one thing though. Do you understand that if you move to another county, then that county is obliged to meet the requirements of the statement, but is also allowed to start a reassessment immediately?

StarlightMcKenzie Wed 20-Feb-13 17:39:24

For what it is worth though, I never homeschooled ds, though he didn't attend what I considered to be an unsuitable placement, that was named in part 4.

LA didn't give a flying fig. School happy as they were getting a ds' TA without a ds.

I simply stated that the school was unsuitable and placing him there risked his self esteem and welfare and that I was keeping him out of it until the outcome of an appeal. If that appeal had resulted in an order to place him there, I probably would have appealed to upper tier regardless of a legal argument in order to keep things temporary until I'd sorted myself out one way or another.

bjkmummy Wed 20-Feb-13 18:12:16

yes im aware of the reassessment risk but i think it would be unlikely the next county would do it - all the reports are up to date due to the tribunal and in the next county the placement i would be going for wouldnt be too horrific for them so they would just place him without too much of a fuss plus my son would be unknown at this school so would be a fresh start and he would be more or less assured a place at the secondary special school where his brother goes - still wouldnt be the perfect placement but a lot better than what we could be forced to do. seeing as this county has sat back for 8 months and done nothing for him, cant see them forcing him into school and think teh head of the school we dont want wouldnt fight for him to come either - just want to keep it legal about him being out of school. i could appeal if i lose as my professionals were unhappy with what the LA did during the tribunal but if im honest ive burnt my bridges here and its time to go!

StarlightMcKenzie Wed 20-Feb-13 18:19:20

Yes, but appealing would be a useful tool to buy you time. You don't have to go through with it, just start it and give that as your reasons for not puting your child into the ordered school. You can withdraw your appeal when you move, or look so blimmin scary to new LA that they give you what you want so you don't even need to appeal.

babiki Wed 20-Feb-13 19:25:12

Actually Star I do know a family with child in special school failing miserably and regressing - started to Home Educate, school involved social services, hinted problems at home, and tried to involve police. Family had to get a solicitor and it took months and huge amount of money to get out of the situation sad

StarlightMcKenzie Wed 20-Feb-13 19:28:48

I suppose what I meant was that I'd never heard of a case where it happened where child protection were not involved.

Usually it requires social services to enable a court to get that child into the school.

I have suffered at the hands of social services henchmen so know that it can happen. This particular issue isn't usual though, because the cheapest option is to ignore the child, rather than insist they are attending placement.

babiki Wed 20-Feb-13 19:52:47

Oh I see what you mean, I'm sorry you know too well what can hapoen then sad.

In the case I was talking about it was strange as the GP first agreed to sign the child off for anxiety and then changed his mind, but did not tell the parents. So all the time out of school was counted as unauthorised absence.

Well at least I know what is my council capable of.

lougle Wed 20-Feb-13 22:36:41

babiki, it's different if your child goes to Special School. You can't just deregister - you have to apply to the LA for permission to take them off role. That' may be why your friend had so much trouble.

bjkmummy Wed 20-Feb-13 22:49:34

my son isnt in a special school and if LA win it will be a mainstream school that is ordered. Ive had a quick look on the sendist website and I would have grounds of appeal I think which could buy me some time.

my elder son overheard us talking tonight and said he didnt want to move but also wanted us to stop fighting over schools. he was worried as he is very settled in his special school. reassured him that if we do move , he will be fine as we are deliberately choosing somewhere where the impact on him is nil. at the moment hes techinically out of county - if we move he will then be in county so will get transport and can stay at his school without much of a fight to he is 18 whereas if we stay here, my current LA will want him out at 16. my elder son was fine once i explained it all to him and could see that there were lots of benefits to him personally and that he would be closer to his classmate. he just wants us to have a rest from fighting for schools which is quite a wake up call listening to your 11 year old autistic son saying this - he has picked up far more than i gave him credit for. he also wants his younger brother to be back in school and happy. im sort of sat here now thinking maybe we should move regardless although if we win would need to check new LA would leave younger son in the school won at tribunal. They do send other kids already to the school and tranpsort probably cheaper as well as school will be closer. decisions decisions but nothing i can do until i get the decision from the tribunal.

dh was against moving but after a very long chat tonight he is happy to do it - he has set out his ground rules which are not unreasonable at all and are very sensible. i have a couple of friends who are not keen on us moving but one is off to america in a few months and i would only be 3 miles away anyway.

fasparent Wed 20-Feb-13 23:27:52

We moved two years ago started school, said would be reassesed , assesment
due this may. ( SEN School )
Other way too home tutor request child stays on school register, they set work
you home teach, sure they would agree on temporary basic. have done this on two occasions, and with full time exclusion's, just went in too take GCSE's.
got better than predicted result's.
Best too grovil eat humble pie, let them think it's their idea's as long as outcome is posotive.

pinkchez Sat 02-Mar-13 12:45:33

Hi, if you choose to Home Educate then the statement stands, you can request that section 4 be changed to state education otherwise/home education. If you can meet your childs needs then there is no further assistance from the LA, but if you do need support then the LA have to provide it, such as SALT etc. They HAVE to keep the statement unless they can show he no longer needs it. If you want further help please feel free to message me, I run the largest Home Education support group (over a thousand members) on FB, as well a special needs group.

julienoshoes Sat 02-Mar-13 14:18:04

pinkchez is correct. The Statement has to be reviewed annually by the LA.

"It's a bit complicated though because technically you don't have the same rights as a parent with a non-statemented child and you are obliged by law to send them to the placement named in part 4. If you don't, the LA can take legal action (don't know of ANY cases where this has happened, - but they might threaten it if you start to demand the provision written in it to be delivered at home)."

Sorry but that bit is NOT true.
the parents of a child who has a statement has exactly the same rights to home educate as any other parent.
You have to provide an education suitable to the SEN helpfully listed in part 2 of the statement, but you don't have to do it the way a school would, and the rest of it-including the stuff in part 4- applies to what the LA must provide if the child is in a state school.

The only time it's different is if the child is a registered pupil at a special school, and then you have to ask permission to deregister, but the LA may not unreasonable withold permission.
Once a child from a special school is deregistered the parents again have exactly the same rights to HE as anyone else.

The LA will need to review the statement, they are obliged to invite you, but you don't have to attend, they don't have to see the child. You can choose to send in written information instead.

Do come on over to the Home Ed Section of Mumsnet and we can discuss it more there, or if you are on FaceBook come and join us on the Mumsnet FaceBook page and/or the Home Educating our Special Needs children FB page and we can discuss it more there.

theDudesmummy Sun 03-Mar-13 14:26:54

Can I just check this to be totally clear: Let us say LEA put a school on the statement which we completely disagree with, and we fight through Tribunal for a different school, and lose. We then say well then we will home educate rather than send him to "your" school, can they or can they not force us to send our child to their school?

sickofsocalledexperts Sun 03-Mar-13 18:19:11

No-one can force you to send your chid to a particular school as a parent only has legally to provide "an education" not "school education". So you can decide to educate at home, and deregister your child. The LA does then have the right to visit and check you are in fact educating, though you don't have to be following any particular curriculum. They do not then have to pay though, as it is your choice not to use their schools. Flexischooling can get round this, it is what I did, but the harsher economic climate may be affecting this.

Icedcakeandflower Sun 03-Mar-13 18:39:57

I think i'm right in saying this - if not am happy to be corrected.

1. Statements are only binding on the school and LA, not the parent.

2. Julienoshoes has already explained about deregistering from special schools.

3. LAs do not have the right to visit or check what you are providing.

4. The latest guidance from the DOE is that flexischooling is no longer an option. This was announced without consultation and likely to be reviewed.

So yes, if you do not get the placement you want, you can deregister and homeschool.

Which is sort of what happened to dd.

sickofsocalledexperts Sun 03-Mar-13 18:52:05

I thought new legislation introduced last year (after some horrific abuse cases) meant they do now have the right to visit a Home Prog, but maybe I'm wrong? I always invited them along very happily and showed them the whole gamut of my home Prog (aka, bored the pants off them so they never ever wanted a 2nd visit!)

coff33pot Sun 03-Mar-13 23:37:59

the LA do have the right to visit and check up but this is done through the relevant authorities.

I chose to Elective Home Ed a while back and DS had a full 25 hr statement.

I had to de-register from the MS school which meant the named school had no further involvement and duty to DS. At the same time the LA then advise social services and education welfare officer to arrange a visit to you to make sure your child is adequately provided for.

This was a temporary measure till he started the preferred school as he was close to transition to Juniors anyway but they still rushed through the home visits regardless which is a good thing tbh as it gives you chance to put on record exactly why you which to HE your SN child.

coff33pot Sun 03-Mar-13 23:39:25

DS statement still stood but of course was not acted upon until he was reinstated back to the school of choice.

theDudesmummy Mon 04-Mar-13 17:59:40

This is all very helpful and reassuring. It basically means that we have nothing to lose by going all out for the school we want and refusing all others. If the worst comes to the worst and we lose a Tribunal, we will just keep him at home on his ABA programme. We stay as broke as hell but at least he is getting what he needs!

shamla Tue 20-Aug-13 13:51:49

Hi, just wondering if someone can advise me. I have a 5 year old child, who has been diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder. He is currently being taught at home, due to his anxiety and strict routine. However he needs to be in a school setting as he has communication and social interaction disorder. I am trying to put him in the school where he attended for his nursery. Due to school being oversubscribed my child didn't get a place. I have requested for a statement as this would allow me to name a school which would mean my child may be attending his preferred school) but that was refused. I have appealed against their decision and this is being processed. Do I have a strong case?

bochead Tue 20-Aug-13 22:18:29

So does that mean I can home ed for a term or so before reentering the school system with DS? We are moving into temp accommodation in a new LA next week.

Long term a school in the new LA is deffo the right place for DS, in the short term though, the transition to a new region of the country etc needs careful management. If he's allowed to go at his own pace in adjusting it'd be so much better for him. I also want 3 months clear to do headsprout without distractions as he's "ready" for it iykwim.

I don't want to lose his current statement as if he were to actually receive the support it outlines he'd make vertical progress very quickly.

zzzzz Wed 21-Aug-13 00:31:13

My understanding was different. As I understood it the statement details what is needed to allow that child to access education and as such if HE the parents would take on the responsibility of delivering what was outlined in the statement.

As for "checks" on your HE set up, I have been visited once by a very nice ex-SS head teacher, who chatted happily about our aims and objects etc, and didn't meet the children.

streakybacon Wed 21-Aug-13 08:23:43

You don't have to have a home visit from the LA if you choose not to. Their role is to establish that you're providing an education and it's up to you how you do that. Some people like to have a home visit but others just send them a report or current education philosophy. The only time the LA has a right to intervene is if they suspect that a child is not being educated or if other concerns are brought to their attention. Their HE role is about assessing the quality of provision either, as 'suitable' isn't quantified in law, so you can educate however you like.

You don't have to have approval from the LA in order to home educate, unless your child is being deregistered from special school.

Part 3 of the statement is what the LA has to provide if they are responsible for the child's education (ie if s/he is placed in one of their schools). It doesn't apply in home education as that responsibility falls to the parent. Legally the responsibility for educating a child falls with the parent, not the LA - it's just that most of us delegate that responsibility to schools.

If you're home educating you can meet the child's needs however you choose and not the way Part 3 states - that's for the LA and schools and doesn't apply if you HE.

As an aside, I've just finalised a statement for ds after nearly five years of HE - not for support purposes but as evidence of longstanding need towards college applications in a couple of years time. It does include access to SEN support among other LA provision. It is possible to amend the provision in Part 3 to suit HE if it fits the child's need.

You'll find all you need to know in the 2007 Guidelines for Local Authorities here.

bochead Mon 26-Aug-13 13:32:20

Tbh I'd welcome a home visit, if only so they can see various aids and adaptations in use & DS can explain how they help him in his own words. It would explain why he can't just be dumped in the nearest school asap and then the "details worked out later", as he'd ask enough questions needing concrete answers to make my point lol!

An OT needs to take a look at the environment and declare it suitable before DS steps foot in a new school too - that will take time to arrange. I'm not moving from one end of the country to the other to have it messed up by over eagerness to get DS on a school roll asap just for the sake of it.

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