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WISC Assessment V BAS Scales (2nd Edition)

(39 Posts)
sweetteamum Tue 19-Feb-13 11:14:11

Could anyone tell me the difference between the two (if there is any).

My DD had the BAS Scales (2nd Edition) last May and it came out with various scores, including an IQ score of 101 - Average Ability

Camhs now want to do the WISC assessment on DD, as they don't believe that DD's assessed IQ (by Dyslexia Action) is correct.

Surely she's going to already know what tests are going to be given or are there different tests for social and educational scores.

Sorry to start another thread, but i'm so confused by it all

sweetteamum Thu 21-Feb-13 23:15:47

I'd feel so bad doing that but then I'm aggrieved that I've not got any answers either. Ill have to speak with dh.

ilikemysleep Thu 21-Feb-13 22:14:45

Right, that is a bit clearer!

I am still peturbed with the job done by the private EP. You could consider a discussion with the HPC, our regulating body...

sweetteamum Thu 21-Feb-13 16:47:32

Sorry ilike. This started off with one thing and led to another.

Dyslexia action used the BAS 11 - this gave a dx of mild dyslexia (for DD)

Our Private EP used the BAS 111 - this gave us nothing apart from saying what he observed (for DS) and saying he didn't think it was dyslexia

ilikemysleep Thu 21-Feb-13 15:57:57

sweeteamum I am confused. Is it a dyslexia action EP who has assessed your child? Done a BAS and sent a standard report, then said they were looking for asd so they can't give any recommendations? How were they hoping to identify asd by doing a BAS? If I am told that asd is suspected I ensure that I observe the child in class and outside on the playground, and I would explictly comment on their social communication and interaction in the report, whetherI thought I saw asd or not. Did any of that happen?

sweetteamum Thu 21-Feb-13 13:19:23

Thanks copper. This EP also spent the same length of time with ds - although I had the report back within a day or two without any recommendations, feedback etc. as he was only looking for asd traits he's not got any other info to share, so we're stuck

coppertop Thu 21-Feb-13 12:56:08

Ds was tested using WISC. He spent a couple of hours with the Ed.Psych, but that also included time in the classroom observing him.

The written report takes a couple of weeks but the Ed Psych was able to go through the results with me straight after the test. It gave us all a really useful insight into ds' particular difficulties and strengths.

sweetteamum Thu 21-Feb-13 10:09:04

I've heard back off the EP. For some reason he's given me some tips for managing ds education outside school. However as far as school goes he seems to have a similar attitude to ds school teacher and says that he's willing to speak to people on my behalf and that as I'd mentioned asd behaviour, that's all he was looking for - it seems we really don't have any useful details due to pass to school.

sweetteamum Wed 20-Feb-13 20:41:13

I was thinking of doing that, but feel so cheeky now. I know it was them who decided they didn't need to see him but I only tried to speed the process along as DS is struggling so much. All it's done is make me question his other assessments now.

ilikemysleep Wed 20-Feb-13 18:21:28

You could try emailing the LA EP and asking for her or his recommendations based on scores in the report from the private EP, if they don't feel the need to repeat the assessments. It isn't exactly wrong to use the standard BAS report, the info is reasonably good, but I would personally expect at least a little individual effort in formulating some recommendations if someone is handing over their hard earned money....

sweetteamum Wed 20-Feb-13 14:42:09

Wow, ilike, thanksforthe link. I've had a quick look through it and it's certainly got more information on thanmyreport from the private EP.

I have re-emailed the EP, again! and hopefully he'll come back with some acceptable answers for us!

sweetteamum Wed 20-Feb-13 14:24:14

They really did Ilike sad we've not really got any further at all as there are no recommendations from our EP, the lea EP said they don't need to do the tests again as they've already been done. We are over £600 down and only to be told that dd has the difficulties we knew about, with a few scores and percentiles added into the mix.

I'm not overacting when I say we are in the same situation as 3 months ago but our bank account is somewhat dented sad

ilikemysleep Wed 20-Feb-13 12:30:01

ilikemysleep Wed 20-Feb-13 12:28:43

The BAS 3 has online scoring and if you (the EP) or your employer chooses to pay a bit more it will print out a report for you, you can choose a professionals report or a parents report. I sincerely hope, sweeteamum, that someone didn't charge £600 and just do that without making any recommendations. You can see sample reports here:

sweetteamum Wed 20-Feb-13 11:44:20

Thank you all for the additional comments - after lots of research i'm finally more confident about the WISC smile

ilikemysleep Tue 19-Feb-13 23:43:28

WEll, the first few slides. It all gets a bit technical after that!

ilikemysleep Tue 19-Feb-13 23:41:39

sweetteamum a WISC takes about 45 mins to 1.5 hours depending on how clever the child is and how slow their processing speed is ;)
That's the basic IQ part. There are additional bits which would make it longer.

moose - No...though it seems like a GAI would be closer to the GCA measured by the BAS. If there is a big discrepancy I just report on the separate clusters individually. I don't think GAI would mean anything much to people here.

This presentation explains it all quite well

moosemama Tue 19-Feb-13 22:48:15

Ilike, do you ever look at the GAI as opposed to the FSIQ?

It seems to be fairly common practice in the US but not over here.

moosemama Tue 19-Feb-13 22:45:59

Not sure how long the test takes, as it was done in school with ds1.

It took a few weeks for the results to come back, as the EP said his results were unusual and she wanted to consult with a couple of other people with more extensive experience of analysing WISC results before producing the report.

His results were also complicated by the school orchestra practising in the hall next door to the room they were assessing him in, so he kept zoning out. (sensory issues) Oh and the school double booking the room and moving him to another class, away from the room he always saw the EP in, halfway through the assessment. hmm

crappypatty Tue 19-Feb-13 22:34:24

Thanks for that Ilikemysleep. That makes sense as to why IQ wasn't included as I specifically asked for this to be included. What about WRAT?

EP spent about 3.5 hours over two sessions but this also included WRAT.

Sorry for hijack

sweetteamum Tue 19-Feb-13 22:24:41

I'm definitely going to get onto the lea EP and say I'd like the WISC to be completed on ds ASAP then.

sweetteamum Tue 19-Feb-13 22:23:34

I recently got back in touch with him to ask how the scores would affect ds at school etc etc and he just said something which I knew before I paid him, over £600!

Thanks ilike, that makes perfect sense now. Thanks for explaining in detail. I'm thinking I should of checked more details now before paying out such a lot of money.

I will look forward to dds WISC assessment results. Just out of curiosity how long will a WISC take and how long would be a reasonable length of time to await the results. Sorry to be a pain. The WISC is the last bit of assessment for hopeful diagnosis.

moosemama Tue 19-Feb-13 22:17:57

Ah, now that's interesting ilikemysleep. It explains why, post WISC, the LEA were happy to accept that despite being academically able and having good 'levels' ds was not reaching anyway near his potential and adequate progress wasn't being made. Which was good, because the school was doing it's level best to cover up a complete lack of progress throughout years 3 and 4.

The WISC results made it clear that he should have been doing better, but that certain aspects of his profile were presenting barriers to him accessing the curriculum.

Ds really enjoyed doing his WISC assessment and asked if he could do another one next week! grin

ilikemysleep Tue 19-Feb-13 21:59:19

BTW, sweetteamum some of the assessments are similar but not exactly the same (eg both tests ask children to use blocks to make patterns but the blocks are different in design and the patterns are obviously different) so it is permitted to do both assessments close together. You cannot repeat either assessment within 6 months.

Medics tend to prefer WISC. I do the WISC nearly all the time because I do so much work with CAMHS.

ilikemysleep Tue 19-Feb-13 21:54:54

The WISC is an IQ test, the BAS is a bit different. It assesses GCA which is NOT exactly the same as IQ. It's a bit complicated but basically:

The WISC gives an IQ called the full scale score (but only if there is less than 23 points between your highest and lowest scores in any cluster, Patty, which might be why your DS didn't get an IQ. You shouldn't quote an overall IQ if there is a big spread of scores). The IQ includes measures of raw reasoning power - the verbals and non verbal (which they call 'performance') clusters - and the supporting underpinning skills which are essential for a child t be able to effectively make use of their reasoning power. The IQ is not just an average of all the scores, it is weighted so as to take account of the impact the different scores might have on a child's ability to make academic progress. For example working memory is very important as an underpinning skill so there is a bit of weighting in the IQ depending on if the working memory score is lower.

The BAS looks at general cognitive ability. This is rather like the reasoning bit of the WISC, except it breaks 'performance' into 'spatial' and 'non verbal' which is a bit more precise. In making the GCA, if I remember correctly (it's a while since I used the BAS) it doesn't include the working memory scores (the recall of digits, for example) - these are assessed separately in a section called 'diagnostic scales'.

So in a WISC IQ score it's a prediction of the child's likely ability to make progress taking into account their reasoning skills and the supporting skills that a child needs to make good use of those reasoning skills in the classroom. The BAS GCA is just a measure of how good a child's reasoning skills are, and doesn't take those underpinning skills into account; they are considered and reported separately.

Advantages of BAS: British test, British norms, separates non-verbal and spatial reasoning.
Advantages of WISC: includes underpinning skills as well as reasoning ability in giving measure of child's 'potential'.

Hope this is clear smile

moosemama Tue 19-Feb-13 21:07:19

Our EP gave us the scores, plus an explanation of what each subtest represents and what ds's results meant. She also made recommendations on what could be done to support and/or compensate for problem areas.

I think I'd be pretty cheesed off if I'd paid for a private EP and they didn't come up with any recommendations. Is there any chance you could contact them and see if they'll do it?

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