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WISC Assessment V BAS Scales (2nd Edition)

(39 Posts)
sweetteamum Tue 19-Feb-13 11:14:11

Could anyone tell me the difference between the two (if there is any).

My DD had the BAS Scales (2nd Edition) last May and it came out with various scores, including an IQ score of 101 - Average Ability

Camhs now want to do the WISC assessment on DD, as they don't believe that DD's assessed IQ (by Dyslexia Action) is correct.

Surely she's going to already know what tests are going to be given or are there different tests for social and educational scores.

Sorry to start another thread, but i'm so confused by it all

wasuup3000 Tue 19-Feb-13 11:32:06

They are 2 different tests the wisc is better at picking up learning difficulties in my opinion than the BAS.

sweetteamum Tue 19-Feb-13 12:37:47

Thanks wasuup, I though dd had already been identified as having dyslexia with the bas and has an iq score. But what new info can the WISC show up in learning difficulties?

Camhs told me it was for an iq score, which we already have. Can't seem to get my head round it.

wasuup3000 Tue 19-Feb-13 12:44:08

Just go for it and see what the results are.

wasuup3000 Tue 19-Feb-13 12:54:37

Basically Camhs are saying they think that your daughter has a learning difficulty which maybe more general than dyslexia on its own. The WISC can pick up on discrepencies that can show whether this is the case or not.

sweetteamum Tue 19-Feb-13 13:38:05

Sounds like another good assessment to have then. Thanks wasuup

crappypatty Tue 19-Feb-13 15:42:34

We have just had the Results for ds, WRAT and WISC -IV
The WISC is broken down into
Verbal Comprehension - similarities, vocabulary, comprehension.
Perceptual Reasoning - Block design, picture concepts, matrices.
Working Memory - Digit span, letter number sequencing.
Processing Speed - Coding, Symbol Search

I actually wanted IQ results but they are not in the report, all the scores are compared to the average score for a children of the same age. ds scored well above average on the first two and well below average for the second two.

It should give you a good idea of your dd's strength and weakness.

sweetteamum Tue 19-Feb-13 16:05:16

Thats what's so confusing patty (sorry didn't want to use the first half of your name). We already have those details already in the very detailed report. It has percentiles, age related and what range she is in. We have the following:

Recall of Designs
Word Definitions
Pattern Construction
Verbal Similarities
Quantative Reasoning

Speed of info processing
Recall of digits forward
recognition of pictures
recall of digits backwards

achievement scales - number, spelling & word reading

Verbal cluster
non verbal reasoning cluster
spatial cluster
gca (or IQ)

special non verbal composites

StarlightMcKenzie Tue 19-Feb-13 17:06:07

Nothing to be afraid of with the WISC if the assessor is competent.

In fact i'd go as far as saying the WISC is better than most and will likely give you more detail about specific difficulties.

sweetteamum Tue 19-Feb-13 17:09:29

Thanks Star, I'm feeling more positive about it. Confused but positive grin

moosemama Tue 19-Feb-13 19:25:36

Ds1's WISC results have been one of the most useful things we have in our arsenal for getting him the support he needs.

School were adamant he didn't have any problems, but couldn't argue with the results produced by their own Ed Psych!

sweetteamum Tue 19-Feb-13 20:41:28

Thanks moose smile

It's funny you should mention that. My son has also recently been assessed by a private EP but they didn't do the WISC. The lea EP wasn't going to do further testing on him but I'd quite like them to do the WISC. Do you think it's worth me mentioning to them as his difficulties are still not so clear cut.

moosemama Tue 19-Feb-13 20:46:31

Personally I'd say go for it.

Ds's WISC profile was spiky and showed up issues that we didn't realise he had and he now gets consideration and adjustments made for in examinations as a result. So it was definitely worth it from that point of view alone.

It was also useful to get a handle on his strengths, as it helps us to work out how best to support him and if possible play to his strengths.

sweetteamum Tue 19-Feb-13 20:59:38

THanks again. The profile our private EP has of him is already really spikey so I should imagine the WISC would show difficulties clearer then. The only thing is I'm disappointed with our EP as he gave no recommendations - it merely stated results based on the BAS (3rd edition) scores.

moosemama Tue 19-Feb-13 21:07:19

Our EP gave us the scores, plus an explanation of what each subtest represents and what ds's results meant. She also made recommendations on what could be done to support and/or compensate for problem areas.

I think I'd be pretty cheesed off if I'd paid for a private EP and they didn't come up with any recommendations. Is there any chance you could contact them and see if they'll do it?

ilikemysleep Tue 19-Feb-13 21:54:54

The WISC is an IQ test, the BAS is a bit different. It assesses GCA which is NOT exactly the same as IQ. It's a bit complicated but basically:

The WISC gives an IQ called the full scale score (but only if there is less than 23 points between your highest and lowest scores in any cluster, Patty, which might be why your DS didn't get an IQ. You shouldn't quote an overall IQ if there is a big spread of scores). The IQ includes measures of raw reasoning power - the verbals and non verbal (which they call 'performance') clusters - and the supporting underpinning skills which are essential for a child t be able to effectively make use of their reasoning power. The IQ is not just an average of all the scores, it is weighted so as to take account of the impact the different scores might have on a child's ability to make academic progress. For example working memory is very important as an underpinning skill so there is a bit of weighting in the IQ depending on if the working memory score is lower.

The BAS looks at general cognitive ability. This is rather like the reasoning bit of the WISC, except it breaks 'performance' into 'spatial' and 'non verbal' which is a bit more precise. In making the GCA, if I remember correctly (it's a while since I used the BAS) it doesn't include the working memory scores (the recall of digits, for example) - these are assessed separately in a section called 'diagnostic scales'.

So in a WISC IQ score it's a prediction of the child's likely ability to make progress taking into account their reasoning skills and the supporting skills that a child needs to make good use of those reasoning skills in the classroom. The BAS GCA is just a measure of how good a child's reasoning skills are, and doesn't take those underpinning skills into account; they are considered and reported separately.

Advantages of BAS: British test, British norms, separates non-verbal and spatial reasoning.
Advantages of WISC: includes underpinning skills as well as reasoning ability in giving measure of child's 'potential'.

Hope this is clear smile

ilikemysleep Tue 19-Feb-13 21:59:19

BTW, sweetteamum some of the assessments are similar but not exactly the same (eg both tests ask children to use blocks to make patterns but the blocks are different in design and the patterns are obviously different) so it is permitted to do both assessments close together. You cannot repeat either assessment within 6 months.

Medics tend to prefer WISC. I do the WISC nearly all the time because I do so much work with CAMHS.

moosemama Tue 19-Feb-13 22:17:57

Ah, now that's interesting ilikemysleep. It explains why, post WISC, the LEA were happy to accept that despite being academically able and having good 'levels' ds was not reaching anyway near his potential and adequate progress wasn't being made. Which was good, because the school was doing it's level best to cover up a complete lack of progress throughout years 3 and 4.

The WISC results made it clear that he should have been doing better, but that certain aspects of his profile were presenting barriers to him accessing the curriculum.

Ds really enjoyed doing his WISC assessment and asked if he could do another one next week! grin

sweetteamum Tue 19-Feb-13 22:23:34

I recently got back in touch with him to ask how the scores would affect ds at school etc etc and he just said something which I knew before I paid him, over £600!

Thanks ilike, that makes perfect sense now. Thanks for explaining in detail. I'm thinking I should of checked more details now before paying out such a lot of money.

I will look forward to dds WISC assessment results. Just out of curiosity how long will a WISC take and how long would be a reasonable length of time to await the results. Sorry to be a pain. The WISC is the last bit of assessment for hopeful diagnosis.

sweetteamum Tue 19-Feb-13 22:24:41

I'm definitely going to get onto the lea EP and say I'd like the WISC to be completed on ds ASAP then.

crappypatty Tue 19-Feb-13 22:34:24

Thanks for that Ilikemysleep. That makes sense as to why IQ wasn't included as I specifically asked for this to be included. What about WRAT?

EP spent about 3.5 hours over two sessions but this also included WRAT.

Sorry for hijack

moosemama Tue 19-Feb-13 22:45:59

Not sure how long the test takes, as it was done in school with ds1.

It took a few weeks for the results to come back, as the EP said his results were unusual and she wanted to consult with a couple of other people with more extensive experience of analysing WISC results before producing the report.

His results were also complicated by the school orchestra practising in the hall next door to the room they were assessing him in, so he kept zoning out. (sensory issues) Oh and the school double booking the room and moving him to another class, away from the room he always saw the EP in, halfway through the assessment. hmm

moosemama Tue 19-Feb-13 22:48:15

Ilike, do you ever look at the GAI as opposed to the FSIQ?

It seems to be fairly common practice in the US but not over here.

ilikemysleep Tue 19-Feb-13 23:41:39

sweetteamum a WISC takes about 45 mins to 1.5 hours depending on how clever the child is and how slow their processing speed is ;)
That's the basic IQ part. There are additional bits which would make it longer.

moose - No...though it seems like a GAI would be closer to the GCA measured by the BAS. If there is a big discrepancy I just report on the separate clusters individually. I don't think GAI would mean anything much to people here.

This presentation explains it all quite well

ilikemysleep Tue 19-Feb-13 23:43:28

WEll, the first few slides. It all gets a bit technical after that!

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