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A bit irritated at nursery/preschool re DS3(15 Posts)
DS3 is 3yo and in nursery/preschool 3 hours a day, 5 days a week. He starts reception in September.
I was told by key worker that he seemed to have issues with his balance/coordination and she would like to have him seen by HV. I didn't really think he showed any huge issues for his age (but am willing to agree that because DS2 has problems in these areas, DS3 may just seem better by comparison IYSWIM), so agreed to have him seen. I specifically asked if there were any other concerns, and she said no.
When HV came to house, she listed off a number of things that she was told by school were concerns:
- has to have things in a particular order/way
- doesn't play with the other children
- gets very upset if routine not followed
- gets very upset if key worker not present
and she mentioned that he had seen the speech therapist a few times.
So I calmly told her that, like the other children, he had the initial assessment by the speech therapist, and I was told he had no speech problems. His speech is very very good, and he not only is quite chatty but is very clear. So I stated that as I hadn't given permission for him to see the speech therapist for follow up and I hadn't been advised of any follow up visits, it shouldn't be happening. (Because it's obviously a waste of time. Time that could be used for those children that DO need more support!)
The school also ONLY mentioned the balance/coordination. I've not witnessed or been told about ANY of the other things. (sounds like a checklist for ASD, doesn't it? ) Now they do know that DS2 has dx of ASD/ADHD, so I'm wondering if they are seeing things that aren't there? Or if they've neglected to tell me these things? Or did they give the wrong child's info to the HV?
I asked his key worker about this, and pointed out that NONE of that other behaviour has been mentioned and she said (rather weakly) "well, he does seem happier when I'm there." I didn't bother to point out that since day 1, I have never seen him get upset over where she is, and again it has never been mentioned to me. (he actually seems to have gravitated towards a particular worker, but it's not his key worker, it's another teacher in the class)
I then asked her if it was possible that the wrong child's info was given to the HV as to the best of my knowledge, he was not seeing the speech therapist. She said "no he's not, but you know sometimes things get muddled." Muddled?? I told her that as adults in charge I expect them to be able to give the correct information on a child to the HV when asking for that child to be assessed. Otherwise it can have an effect on the assessment, if HV is working off incorrect information to begin with. She had no answer to that. She also couldn't really say that he did or didn't display those behaviours. For heaven's sake, how is that helpful??
Very very frustrating. I think now I'm going to have to speak to the manager/director (whatever appropriate title).
I hate to stir up trouble,but at the same time, I think it's important that this type of thing is brought to their attention. Or am I being too critical?
I would be very concerned about the sessions with SALT without your permission, definitely speak to the manager and get some answers.
I am all for early intervention trigglesx but would expect it to begin with discussions with parents!
Is your Ds3 on the special needs register? If I had concerns about a child (I am senco in a preschool) I would be gathering written observations, meeting with parents and completing a Note of concerns sheet.
I would recommend visiting the senco and asking what information has been gathered on your child and why has he been seen by a salt without your permission or even knowledge.
If the Code of practice was being followed correctly a child who is getting outside intervention eg. SALT then he or she should be on Early Years Action Plus and should be working from an IEP!
I had slightly different but similar concerns with DS3. The nursery was much better at following procedures than yours, however. They put my DS3 on early years action, then called in the area SENCo and put him on EYA+ and had an IEP of sorts. Trouble was I just wasn't concerned at all. I could see he was quirky, obsessional, pedantic, but I had DS2 to compare him with and I couldn't worry about DS3.
In retrospect I was, maybe, a bit blasé, but he spent so much time at the special needs pre school that DS2 went to and the staff there were also completely unconcerned, that I knew his quirks were, while probably on the spectrum, on the very edge of it.
I went along with the IEPs and once he started at primary school, he was quickly taken off the SEN register altogether. The staff there knew the family history (this was DS1 and DS2's school) and always made allowances for DS3.
Triggles, your nursery have been rubbish, but try to get to the bottom of this ASD checklist. Don't get distracted by their incompetence. My 3 DSs are all somewhere on the spectrum, I'm sure of it, but DS1 and 3 are borderline NT really. But the chances of having a same parents male sibling with a DX able ASD is 25%, not including the things like dyspraxia, Sensory Processing Disorder, and the like. Your DS3 is not like your DS2 but there could be something in this. I know you know this, sorry if it sounds like teaching you to suck eggs, granny! I don't mean to sound patronising, really!
I just spoke to the nursery manager. She waffled a lot!
I had already asked his key worker, who confirmed he hasn't seen the speech therapist other than the initial assessment. So I then asked the manager, and she waffled, going on about how they all had an assessment, blah blah. And I said "yes, I KNOW they all had an assessment, I was FINE with that. I was told there were no speech problems and he wouldn't be seen again." She then said "well, there were a few concerns about pragmatic speech (etc etc)." So why wasn't I told?!? I have another child with speech and language delay. They KNOW this. So realistically it's not like I couldn't cope with the concern. And they should have said something. She said they're supposed to be just monitoring it somewhat. Again, then I should have been told, if nothing else just so I could monitor it as well. grrrrrr
I asked about the other behaviours the HV said had been brought to her attention and the manager waffled again. I pointed out that DS3 had a parents review within a week prior to the HV's visit, and NONE of it had been pointed out to me. She waffled again, saying something about them meeting and discussing DS3 a bit and coming up with those concerns. What?!?!? Does that even make sense? Again, I should have been told. I asked them a couple times if there was anything other than the balance/coordination issues and they said NO. (well, other than toilet training, which he's still not yet, but we're working on it slowly)
I was utterly exasperated. I finally said "Look. It's really not that complicated. Either these behaviours are present and a concern, or they're not. Which is it? I can deal with it either way, but I simply need a straight answer on this. He IS my child and I have a right to know this!" So apparently, straight answers are not possible. I'm going to have to meet with the manager tomorrow morning after I drop him off and she will "go over his records" with me and discuss it. And she also wants to implement an IEP regarding his balance and coordination (and possibly any other concerns). Even though the HV thought he was fine. Sigh. I'm just praying for strength at this point, as this is really irritating.
I am perfectly fine dealing with it if he has SNs of any sort. That's life, right? You deal with it. But I am NOT happy with getting different info than the HV about my own child. I was very clear that I wanted to see the IEP and be allowed time to provide input into it before it was final/signed.
Roll on next year when he's in reception, I know the senco at the primary school (who is generally pretty great - she worked with DS2), and the school is pretty much great as well.
I would be livid. This kind of muddled get the group together, feed off each others nonsense and add a pinch of gossip drives me crazy. The assessments are ONLY useful if information is accurate.
Phone SALT and ask HER if she is seeing ds.
See manager and ask for a written and SIGNED list of their concerns to date with dated examples/descriptions of the behaviour and any outside agencies that have seen ds with dates and outcomes.
Explain HV has said no balance issues and ask if they are ignoring her input and if so for them to write a letter for you to take to a MEDICAL professional to look at because they seem to be barking mad.
Give them a letter outlining that you expect minutes of all meeting regarding ds that take place in the future. Take 2 copies and get one signed to say they agree.
Explain in words of one syllable that you are able to cope with any observation or concerns that hey have regarding any aspect of your child's development, but hearing in this ridiculous unspecified sloppy way through a third party is unhelpful and not in your child's best interests.
Triggles, it is fine as I am sure you will agree for staff within a setting to have informal discussions about individual children. However as soon as that informal discussion becomes a meeting, parents should be informed and invited to share their thoughts and make plans for the child.
I would not be impressed either and feel sorry for you that you have to put up with this until July.
Good luck when you meet the manager again
zzzzz I will definitely be laying down a few ground rules regarding this when I meet with the manager, and asking some specific questions(which I will be preparing tonight so I don't forget anything). I am very angry with how sloppy this has been.
Ineed yes, I agree, informal discussions are one thing, but "meetings" are quite another and concerns should ALWAYS be made known to the parent.
Tomorrow should be an interesting meeting. I will be edgy anyway as it's DS2's first day of going swimming with his group from school (SS), and I'm terrified as he's a runner with no sense of safety (lovely school have assigned a TA to be with him 1:1 the entire time but I'm willing to admit I'm a paranoid mum). So I'm not going to be in the best frame of mind to put up with nonsense.
Don't rant at them. Make every word count (and sting). HONK HONK
We will be honking for you.
I also admit to being paranoid where my childs safety is concerned.
Oh, I won't rant. I will be firm and very clear.
We did discuss further about DS2's swimming and decided with teacher that he was a bit too high risk right now and will hold off his swimming until next year. We're not comfortable with his low level of cooperation and comprehension, combined with being a runner as well as no sense of danger. He insists he knows how to swim, will go right into deep water, and will not listen. Plus he also gets completely overstimulated by the water, combined with the noise and the echoes in the pool room. It's just too much.
I've had my meeting this morning with the manager. Finally got her to understand that it's not whether or not he has areas of concern that I'm having the problem with, it's the fact that they're not TELLING me that's the problem. The lack of communication. We went round and round for a bit, with her trying to describe what they're looking for and developmental stages and such, and I finally had to interrupt her and say I'm fine with that - but please listen to what I'm saying here. I honestly don't think she previously understood that I just wanted to be kept informed!
I basically told her that I should be advised of any concerns and anything they feel needs to be "watched" regarding DS3. How else can I tell them if these behaviours or problems are occurring outside of nursery?
She did apologise for the lack of communication and stated that they would make sure things were improved from now on, which I appreciate. Hopefully, this will sort the issue.
Oy. They do sound like a lovely feedback loop of 'concern'. Glad you had a productive meeting with them.
Circular conversations seem to be the order of the day in educational meetings. I have just had a marvelous one with senco at school.....I hate it. I hate it. I hate it.
On a brighter note perhaps they got the message. It beggars belief that they aren't sharing concerns though! How is that in the child's best interest.
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