Need Some Persepctive and Help Please, Really Angry

[percypenguin]

Sorry if a bit long, but I figured this was the best place for the most understanding responses and to help me keep perspective
A bit of background first -

DS is 4.9 and at a mainstream school, having attended the school nursery for the previous year. They flagged up some issues and to cut a long story short, he is seeing CAMHS next week, been observed in school and will be having the ADOS test - general consensus is Autistic Spectrum somewhere, school can't meet his needs as things are etc.

I'm fully aware of his issues but he seems a million times worse at school and they seem to be treating him as if they expect very little from him therefore he gets to do whatever he likes (throwing things, hurts others) with no pre empting of situations from them at all. He doesn't go around randomly hurting others though (just so you know!!) just gets angry and lashes out - say at times when it's tidy up time and children try to tidy his things away.

Anyway, school are proving a bit useless with things generally, lot of staff change, head very dizzy and they seem to be making it quite obvious that he is not wanted at their school.

Cut to today, Reception nativity performance! DS just being a "general being" in the show - as the children come in he is at the back still in full uniform. they currently have a supply teacher and he is with her along with another child She sits down near to me with another child and then promptly hands him over to me with a "can I leave him with you now" and walks off! My friend notices a teacher realise DS is not changed (!!)

He is not misbehaving, good as gold actually and now distanced from the rest of the 2 classes and not a single school adult pays any attention to him - he stood out like a sore thumb and was completely excluded from the show. I kept trying to encourage him to sit on the bench at the side - which he did do but then was completely by himself and got fed up. I felt like they may as well made him stand outside - in the end I took him out, the whole thing was awful and I was so angry. Some other children with issues were sat with a TA and being helped - these children can be violent and a real pain but my DS was just left out completely

They said afterwards that he had said he didn't want to get changed (though he says he doesn't want to he would put up very little resistance - this is not something he has huge issues with for example) so they left him - the thing is he would never want to do anything if left to it, and I could understand it if he had huge melt downs at these things but he doesn't - more a bit of a whinge. But I guess more than anything was the complete disregard of my son - that he was treated as a nothing and not important enough for anyone to help him take part and ignored. I guess this is the straw that broke the camels back but it was awful and I feel like removing him - he was made to look completely singled out and in effect he was - the school nod their heads in the right places but they don't really listen and so really wanted to come on and get some perspective for all of this from other people and from people who will understand!

So now for tomorrows performance, I have been "asked" to go in to get him ready....................

[crazygal]

your poor ds!! how did he feel being left out??did it bother him at all,as a matter of interest?
I too would have been gutted if ds was left out!
Even if he didn't want to get changed,why wasn't he included??!
I hope tomorrow nights performance is better for you,
My ds has issues,they never give him a part,but,hes in the middle of it all and he feels completely included,
Has your ds got a statement?

[madwomanintheattic]

Ok, I suspect they just didn't think far enough ahead. It is entirely probably that in the general melee, ds did refuse to get changed, they didn't have anywhere calm, and didn't have any additional staff that had the time to get him in a position where he was able to comply with the costume requirements (hence their request that you come in to supervise that tomorrow in case he refuses to comply again). Does ds normally deal well in a small room full of shrieking overexcited four and five year olds, all shouting 'where's my belt/ my headress/ my socks' and sword fighting with shepherds crooks?

It isn't great, but tbh, having seen what happens in the background of these affairs, if school haven't got a working dx, and coping strategies and support in place, then it's the very worse environment for him to be in without support.

He's out of routine, surrounded by chaos, and people are insisting he does stuff on his own, and fast. It isn't likely to have a great chance of success.

In an ideal world, each child would have a supervising TA who would calmly collect them with lots of prior warning, remove to a safe place, help them to get ready, and return them to backstage, where everything would be calm and lovely. They would escort them around their role, offering support as needed, and everyone would cry and cheer and clap at the end.

Yr r nativities are hell on earth, no matter how many small blonde girls get to dress as angels.

It's an emotional time for you, with the assessment so close, etc, and school haven't handled it well (dd2's school did pull out the 'ideal world' scenario above, so it is possible, just not widely practiced...) but I think in practical terms, I would be asking what was best for ds in this particular situation...

If school have no one who can get him ready, then it might be easier to just go in.

Next year, when he has a dx in place, and over a year's worth of ieps, and external involvement and advice, you can be discussing with school well in advance how they intend to facilitate his full participation...

[madwomanintheattic]

[mymatemax]

move schools!
Whilst in an ideal world it would be great to educate the school to make the world a better placcce etc etc, it sounds like you'd be flogging a dead horse.

No child will reach their potential and be happy in an establishment were they dont feel wanted & valued.

It can be hard enough getting enough support when the school are working with you and want to help but with such an awful uncaring attitude sounds like you'd be fighting alone.

[IndigoBelle]

You can remove him you know.

It's perfectly legal to inform school tomorrow that you will be home edding him, and to never take him back there again.

Then you can look round alternative schools in your leisure (or keep him home)

Not saying you should do this - but you certainly can.

I certainly think you should look round other schools. You will not be able to make this place work for him long term.

[maxybrown]

Hi everyone - I am percypenguins friend - I was with her today when this happened.

Madwomanintheattic - completely understand what you are saying, I have worked in schools for 20 years so very familiar with nativity situations shall we say!! I think I can speak for my friend in that but it was more the fact that no one attempted to take him to join in - he would have sat through it, as he did through the nursery performance - it is the fact that they just dumped him on my friend in a real "here you have him" way and walked off - obviously it was upsetting for her!

My own DS is also currently awaiting a diagnosis, and has had an IEP since nursery - her DS hasn't even got an IEP, they are giving real vibes that they do not want him. one of the TAs was sat with 2 other boys who really do cause havoc, yet he was just dumped

I am also unhappy with the school and will be looking elsewhere for my DS but I know she wanted some other peoples views on all of this

[shoppingbagsundereyes]

My ds spent two years at a school where very little was done to support him to integrate, he was constantly allowed to opt out of things he was perfectly capable of doing. I discovered last feb he had done no maths at all for 3 months because he didn't want to and I guess they felt it was too much hassle to make him. We moved school and he is now at a school with very high expectations. He has met every single expectation and is now participating in school life like all the other children.
I would consider looking for a school with higher expectations of what children with SEN are capable of doing.

[confusedperson]

I just wonder if the school is not a faith school in this instance...?
(sorry don't answer if irrelevant)

[percypenguin]

Shopping - my DS is the same. He is a very capable boy and we suspect Aspergers for my son but he is also being able to opt out of things if he doesn't want to - I have made it quite clear we are not happy with this but..............

[ChristmasTreegles]

Letter to headteacher, cc in the LA, stating that it is obvious that your son's needs are not being met. Point out all the things that are not being done (such as the IEP, support, etc) and insist on a meeting with headteacher and senco to sort out what support they are going to provide to him as well as getting discussion going on an IEP (including discussing things like how to handle when he initially refuses). Make a paper trail - it's the only way they will sit up and pay attention.

Then bring someone to the meeting - or better yet, have a multiagency meeting that can include you, headteacher, senco, teacher, OT, SALT, paed, and any others you feel need to be there.

The sooner you make a stand and demand things get done, the better. You don't need a dx for support or a statement. Apply for statement, and make sure they are clear that you are not just going to go away.

Flip side of that is if you feel they are not willing to support your son, find another school. (I know, easier said than done, but there you go.)

[percypenguin]

Thanks for all the replys.
I really need to think long and hard about possibly moving him school or educating him at home as at the moments I feel schools doing more harm than good.

[mysleighscalldtrev]

If you can - Home Ed - I was left with little choice but to do this as my son was treated appalingly by his school. Am now [2 years on] battling with the LA over ensuring he is at the correct placement for him. For us, leaving him in a school where he was being neglected and pushed to one side, even with a Statement became too much. We have a battle now to ensure he is placed in the correct school for him, but feel we know his ability better now, and are in a position where we have taken more control of our situation.

[MummytoMog]

We had a very similar episode with DD at her nursery nativity. To be fair, DD is essentially non-verbal, and prone to screaming if thwarted, and was actually not well, but I brought her in specially for the nativity (already dressed) and she ran up really happily to the front to sit with the rest of the children and got yanked back to sit on the TA's knee. Which she wasn't happy about and I wasn't happy about either. They also let her get away with just not participating a lot of the time and her targets are stuff that she can and does do perfectly well at home (allowing other people to join in with little people play for example, I am now required to join in at all times or playing running and chasing games with other children - I think DS would love it if he were not constantly required to play running games with DD). I know she is a bit different at nursery, but that's partly because they don't challenge her. We're going to ask if we can go to nursery with her one day to observe and see how she is there so we can suggest some more meaningful targets and coping strategies for the TAs and teacher.

The things that annoyed me most of all were that there were plenty of other disruptive children, including Joseph who was HOWLING the whole way through and a King who walloped Mary. And the Angel Gabriel, while she sang loudly, was madly offkey. DD is far more beautiful and can sing in tune beautifully. And of course is blonde ;)

[shoppingbagsundereyes]

We had some improvement with ds' last school when I made it clear to the teacher that I wanted and expected ds to be made to things he didn't want to do. For eg he was being allowed to eat his lunch in the corridor. I made it clear this was unacceptable to me and that I fully supported them in making him sit in the dining hall. With ds he kicks off the first time he is made to do something he would rather not but thereafter tends to accept the inevitable and get on with it. After one stroppy lunch time he ate his lunch happily with everyone else.
I think teachers get so many parents complaining when their childis disciplined that they choose the easier option of not bothering. This was disastrous for ds because he needs rules and boundaries to feel secure. When he feels no one is in charge he is a right mess.