Thank you Moondog, Starlight and Schobe for pointing out PECS

[Dev9aug]

DW went on the course last week and it has been an eye opener. We have started to implement it and already started to see that it would definitely benefit us. going to get that incorporated in the home programme now.

Messmonster If you are reading this, get yourselves on a PECS course, best £150 you will ever spend.

[messmonster]

I'm reading, I'm reading . Thanks Dev so glad it was beneficial for you.

We've implemented a communication book with our DD in the last few weeks and that's proving very successful too. We've done this in favour of PECs since she was very reluctant to use PECs (at least in the way it was being presented to her).

I may still go on the course because I think the principles would be transferable and everyone who's been on it highly recommends it.

Thanks for the prompt and good luck with implementing it at home.

[MummytoMog]

There are courses? Can anyone book on? We don't see SALT for a couple of months and DD is doing a weird thing with adding her name to the end of every sentence, would be great to do some training anyway, but I could maybe get some advice on using it with my very echolalic DD.

[EllenJaneisstillnotmyname]

PECS worked brilliantly with my DS2, many moons ago. It kick-started his understanding of the usefulness of communication. He moved on to using speech within 6 months. The trick was initially using very much desired objects, food like crisps or biscuits broken into small pieces or games like bubbles. I became the queen of sticky back plastic and got quite good at drawing cartoons of things, but these days laminators and symbols online are the way to go!

[SallyBear]

Link to PECS courses run by Pyramid here

[MummytoMog]

Thank you!! Might see if I can go to Canterbury :)

[Dev9aug]

Ellen How old was your ds when you started using PECS?

Thanks for the link Sally

And messmonster mummytomog definitely go to this course as it also explains the principles of ABA as well as how to successfully implement PECS.

[StarlightMcKenzie]

That's great Dev. Wish I coukd go on a course again, just because.....

Sadly can't justify it but perhaps in the next phase of life.

[moondog]

So pleased to hear that Dev.
The PECS people are the business.
Going on a PECS course changed my life. It led me directly to what I do today.
Who were the trainers?

[SallyBear]

Moondog definitely agree with using Pyramid. My SALT said to me, that she'd train us. She was absolutely dreadful at it, whereas the course trainer Gary was brilliant.

[EllenJaneisstillnotmyname]

Dev DS2 was 3.4 or so starting PECS and only had a few not very useful words, like 1 - 10, square, circle, triangle, most colours etc. But he struggled to actually communicate anything useful until PECS and was very frustrated. His SALT actually trained me and him. She was excellent. She videoed the sessions with him to help train others as he was such a good example. He took to it really quickly. He started at a special school at 3.3 and the SALT was attached to the school. By nearly 4 he was able to voice his needs pretty much. I've no idea if he would have started speaking anyway, but the improvement in his frustration early on was well worth it.

He's in MS now, age 13 and he is struggling with French, but doing passably well in English (great at maths, all those shapes and numbers!) Still very autistic, no friends but doesn't want any, and coping well with 1:1.

[Firawla]

hmm interesting. salt recommended pecs for my ds so will be starting that soon but i was feeling a bit skeptical about it like not sure how good it would really be, so good to hear all the positive comments maybe it will be more useful than i was initially thinking

[StarlightMcKenzie]

Fir, PECS is often quoted as an intervention when what actually happens is very poor practice.

I put myself through a PECS course because I wanted the ammunition to tell Ds' SALT WHY PECS was a stupid idea for Ds.

Turns out I got my ammunition, but not in the way I thought. I learned that PECS was perfect for DS, but the weird version of it the SALT was trying to pass off as PECs was bollocks.

[schobe]

Yay.

Seeing my name in a thread title didn't half make me start

[moondog]

The brilliant thing about PECS is that it uses the highly sophisticated promting and prompt fading and error correction strategies that are the backbone of ABA.
As Star says, an understanding of these leads to an understanding of how to use them elsewhere.

Unfortunately, many people who claim they can show you how to use PECS (s/lts being main culprits) have no idea how to do so because they think their idiosyncratic, made up on the hoof way of doing thnigs is cleverer than PECS, It isn't.

[Dev9aug]

What moondog and star said about crap implementation is so true. We were put off using it earlier as it was described to us so badly and implementation was so complicated. But after going on the course, it has become clear that it is actually quite easy.

moondog the trainers were Louise and Julia, I think. dw liked it so much that she has booked to go on another course next year.

[Firawla]

hmm I see. I don't have that much faith in the particular slt who suggested it so not sure how well they will implement it. Might have to make sure they send us on a course then.

[StarlightMcKenzie]

Fir, It's not impossible, but I expect it is unlikely they would pay for you to go on the Pyramid course. In fact, when I went on the course I was the only parent amongst professionals. That actually had some benefits though.

My dd was 3 months old and exclusively breastfed. DH had to spend two days with the 2 children hanging outside the hotel and popping in every break for me to feed dd. God I'm glad those mad days are over.............

[Firawla]

will have a look how much it is, have got some money from mil to spend on private slt, therapy etc only thing is everything is expensive so it doesn't go that far! is pyramid the only main one thats any good?

[Dev9aug]

Agree with star dw was the only parent there as well and the other professionals on the course were very keen to help out during the group sessions, so it definitely has its benefit. The course was about £150.

You won't get the same amount if info by going private I am afraid. For £150, I thought it was really good value for money as you do get a lot out of that course. I haven't heard of anybody else doing them either.

[Firawla]

150 is not that bad, will look into it. thanks!!

[moondog]

Julia and Louise are great.
It is amazing value for £150.
I have done 4 (!) courses now, but that is because I willingly sit in when we have PECS training up here (our LEA invest heavily in it, and are great) because every time I come away with more good stuff.

Very often there is a mix of parents and professionals.
I like that-everyone learning together.

It's totally logical Dev and all worked out for you.All you have to do is follow the steps.
I have summarised the manual if you would like a copy but stress that the manual itself is an incredibly useful read. I have read it many times.

[moondog]

Noone else offers this training because Pyramid (training company) set up by husband and wife couple, Andy Bondy and Lori Frost, who devised PECS. They are a behaviour analyst and s/lt respectively.

They always attend the yearly ABA international conference in the States Dev, and this year, Andy Bondy gave one of the keynote speeches.

Amazing people.

[EllenJaneisstillnotmyname]

Gosh, it was a long time ago, but I remember that DS2's PECS training started with hand over hand guidance, from one adult, with the other adult having the crisps or biscuits and being passed the card. The guiding adult would say, 'I want a crisp' as my DS passed the card over. The other adult would repeat it (I think) as she took the card and gave DS the crisp. Initially any requests were given, no-one said no. Apparantly DS 'got it' really quickly and was soon passing the cards himself. It took longer for him to say the words as well. He moved on to a choice strip with 2 choices, then 3 etc. Eventually he had his own folder full of PECS of food, drinks, games videos etc and a strip where he would put the 'I want' PEC then the item, which he would pass to me and say, 'I want Pingu game' etc. By this stage I could say 'no' if it wasn't appropriate and offer different choices etc.

Does that sound about right? The SALT had a third person videoing so I could watch it and learn the method, which she asked if she could use to train other SALTs.

[moondog]

Good memory Ellen!

[EllenJaneisstillnotmyname]