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Here are some suggested organisations that offer expert advice on SN.

statements for genuinely naughty kids but not for SN!

(83 Posts)
moleskin Sun 11-Nov-12 18:27:58

Hi just wanted peoples views on this and didn't want to post on AIBU. I have a friend who's boy has developmental delay, speech delay, only just walking etc. His first application for a statement for reception next yead was turned down shockingly!!

Someone I know has a 12 yr old boy who has always been typically naughty. Expelled permenantly from high school after few weeks and social services involved with family. He was assessed by ed pysch as good intelligence and no SN at all. Anyway to get him out of PRU and back to school SS have put in for a statement for him so he can attend a private school and board there!! God knows how much that will cost.

I know what a struggle some of you guys have getting statements and am shocked that this family are getting one for their son who tbh could do with a bit of a discipline! Whilst I realise that SN can be hidden disabilities this boy genuinely doesn't have any SN, he just seems to want to be cool by acting up! In front of friends.

How typical is this of kids with no SN getting a statement? I know my dd2 would do much better in a private school and smaller classes for reception next year but also know we have no hope of getting that!

AgnesDiPesto Sun 11-Nov-12 18:38:47

I don't think its very common. I guess its the equivalent of the boy being taken into care and perhaps easier to talk the parents into a statement and boarding than to put him in foster care. He will probably do better at boarding school than in care and cheaper on the public purse too.

Sadly some children are better off away from their parents.

wasuup3000 Sun 11-Nov-12 18:40:48

You can appeal this descision at tribunal. To be honest the other child and his situation is absolutely none of your business.

moleskin Sun 11-Nov-12 18:42:57

Thanks Agnes that prob explains it then as it would certainly fit.
Wassup no it isn't any of my business but I know both parents and I'm just interested in how one got refused a statement and one didn't that's all, and asking if its commonplace. I have no knowledge of statements so unsure how they work.

StarlightMcKenzie Sun 11-Nov-12 18:43:45

My view is that given how difficult it is to secure this type of placement it must be a)absolutely necessary and b)the cheaper of the options

StarlightMcKenzie Sun 11-Nov-12 18:45:19

I think as a general rule though, children without pushy parents get more provision. The trouble is it is still usually not anywhere near what that child needs. I'm sure my fight was such an uphill battle because they thought that I would make sure ds was alright one way or another and because they wanted as low a baseline as possible to begin their negotiations from.

WofflingOn Sun 11-Nov-12 18:45:30

I agree with wasuup, you appear to be making the same shallow, uninformed judgement about this child as so many others do about our own children.
You have no idea what sort of traumas this child has undergone, or what the diagnosis is that has been used as the criteria for putting in for a statement.
Perhaps you should have posted in AIBU instead of this support area.

moleskin Sun 11-Nov-12 18:45:37

Thanks star yes probably cheaper as Agnes said. I didn't think of it that way.

I don't want a bun fight was just curious. But thank you Agnes and star you've explained most likely why.

StarlightMcKenzie Sun 11-Nov-12 18:46:21

By pushy I don't really mean it the way it is usually used but to describe a parent who cares very much about their child being short-changed and having their life chances suppressed.

wasuup3000 Sun 11-Nov-12 18:46:35

You have no knowledge of statements but you applied for one? Sorry I don't follow?

moleskin Sun 11-Nov-12 18:47:52

Woffling I have a child with dx behaviour difficulties so I know all about judgements thanks.

However, I know both families and know the circumstances. I didn't realise they had to put a diagnosis as criteria for a statement thank you for that.

moleskin Sun 11-Nov-12 18:49:21

Wassup I didn't say at all that I'd applied for statement in OP did I? I simply said I know what dd2 would need and that she wouldn't get it

wasuup3000 Sun 11-Nov-12 18:50:33

Well if your dd needs it why don't you try and get it?

troutsprout Sun 11-Nov-12 18:51:47

I think that without knowing this little lad's circumstances in full, one cannot comment on whether he has needs. His needs are such that he cannot cope and he is making life miserable for himself and those around him. His family probably desperately need help with him also.I think Yabu ....sorry. I have heard people say similar things about children with undiagnosed ADHD , asd and other problems. In fact I know of one child myself whose mother refused a dx who this is routinely said about. I can't begrudge any help given a child if its needed.

moleskin Sun 11-Nov-12 18:51:54

Because the funding here is crap and to be honest I don't need the fight at the min. Crap funding hence why my friends young boy was declined when he really shouldn't have been at all.

WofflingOn Sun 11-Nov-12 18:52:56

'However, I know both families and know the circumstances.'

You've been involved in all the meetings and discussions as well? Had access to all the information presented by the professionals involved with the child and the family?
How unusual, they don't usually allow access to all that for some interested acquaintance.

moleskin Sun 11-Nov-12 18:54:01

Thanks trout, I don't begrudge any child help but surely we do all agree here that there are some kids out there who really are just naughty and don't have SN?! And that surely kids with SN deserve that funding.

WofflingOn Sun 11-Nov-12 18:54:12

Your friend's son has been declined in reception, they can reapply with further evidence from the school to support their claim.

wasuup3000 Sun 11-Nov-12 18:54:30

Well if you won't try and the other childs parent won't try then thats just tough but it is no way leaway to judge the other child and their family.

badgerparade Sun 11-Nov-12 18:55:05

But BESD is classed as SEN and a valid reason for a statement if the child cannot access a learning environment. That could be my ds you are talking about, Same age, always known as the ‘naughty boy’ and with a sm for BESD. He was also sent to a PRU and has had exclusions. He is incredibly complex and we now finally have a dx (complex form of ASD) so are hoping that he will finally get the support he has needed all these years. I am hoping to get him into a residential specialist school as it will be the best place for him. Please don’t judge this child and family as they’ve probably had years of hell to cope with and plenty of judgemental people along the way sad.

wasuup3000 Sun 11-Nov-12 18:55:43

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moleskin Sun 11-Nov-12 18:55:45

Woffling sorry but I simply asked a question said I didn't want an arguement and just wanted to know if it was standard practice that's all. Star and Agnes have both answered my question perfectly thanks. I certainly don't need a lecture for asking a question!

WofflingOn Sun 11-Nov-12 18:57:16

Of course there are naughty children without an SN, in the same way that there are parents who claim their child has an SN when they are actually incompetent or inadequate parents who are creating or facilitating many of the difficulties in their child.
But why personalise it like that? Why have a go at a family because they have accessed help their child needs, rather than just asking what your friend could do to enable her son to get support?

wasuup3000 Sun 11-Nov-12 18:57:47

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

WofflingOn Sun 11-Nov-12 18:58:22

I don't see it as a lecture, more like lifting a rock and shining a light into a dark place.

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