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can a child be denied access to ANY school for being 2:1 if not more?

(29 Posts)
devientenigma Thu 25-Oct-12 16:21:00

exactly that

TIA x

EllenJaneisstillnotmyname Thu 25-Oct-12 17:14:44

I have no idea, I wouldn't think so. Bumping for you.

BackforGood Thu 25-Oct-12 17:19:29

What do you mean ?

silverfrog Thu 25-Oct-12 17:21:51

I owuldn't have thought so, dev.

surely (in theory) every child is entitled to an education, and steps must be taken to ensure that this takes place. it might not mean school, though, but instead more home tuition.

parents do have a right to ask for school, but I assume the 'not detrimental to others in he class/school' also applies to SN school, so that could be the get-out.

HOWEVER, tht is not to say that the child should be denied a suitable education.

devientenigma Thu 25-Oct-12 19:38:22

Thanks silver and Ellen wink

Back, another school has refused to take DS and one of the reasons why was this, just curious if it could be used as a reason.

coff33pot Thu 25-Oct-12 20:20:27

Ok so they used this as a reason in what respect? That they didn't have enough staff. ?

Surely la would fund it knowing your ds needs a lot of support.

So sorry someone else has dished out a no to you xx

silverfrog Thu 25-Oct-12 21:02:16

did the school say no because they cannot provide the 2:1?

because surely it would be possible to get the proision for the extra staff written into your ds' statement (which would obviously be easy wink), and then the school would not have grounds to refuse?

not as though the LA has any other options or coherent plan, is it?

2old2beamum Thu 25-Oct-12 21:39:06

DS has designated 1:1 all the time (trained) and for intensive interreaction work a 2:1 It is clearly stated in his statement.
BTW I think we (or he) are very lucky, Thanks school and LEA.

devientenigma Thu 25-Oct-12 21:50:18

they have give 4 reasons why they can't meet his needs, one I can throw DDA at them, 1 there's no argument, they win, another hits the nail on the head why no school would be suitable and this was another. I was just curious could they realistically use it to deny access so to speak. DS is 2:1 and for others and meltdowns takes a few adults to control.

They never said they couldn't silver but based the unpredictability of how many adults could be needed for events/activities. I do feel the LA have a plan, I'm just praying it goes wrong for them atm. If it goes there way I feel they are setting DS up to fail.............again.

Thanks coff and 2old

inappropriatelyemployed Thu 25-Oct-12 22:07:12

The grounds for refusing to accept a child lie in schedule 27(3) of the Educuation Act.

A school has to show that the school is unsuitable to the child’s “age, ability or aptitude or to his special educational needs”, that attendance is incompatible with “efficient education for the children with whom he would be educated” or that attendance is incompatible with the “efficient use of resources”

mariammma Thu 25-Oct-12 22:08:21

If the classrooms are physically tiny, maybe. Can't see much else.

bochead Thu 25-Oct-12 22:10:11

Newham LA usually has a few kids in mainstream schools and units attached to mainstream on 2:1. They are utterly inclusion crazy, so perhaps worth seeing if they have any policy docs etc that could be shown to your own LA?

AgnesDiPesto Thu 25-Oct-12 22:35:45

I think the LA would have a duty under Education Act to find a school that could offer 2:1 or demonstrate there were none
I know for eg Treehouse has children who have 2:1 or more
But I would also think an individual school would be able to say it was not suitable because its not just about extra staff, its about having safe places, safe classroom layout, extra staff on hand, everyone having very specialised training and there will be few schools which meet that criteria.

You might find this interesting reading - it was a case where child needed 2:1 and brought a human rights act (right to education) claim for delay in finding a placement. Did not win the human rights argument as was a recognition not all States could fund the cost (here it was over £200k). But it did raise criticisms of the delay by LA and also the prospect that a right to education claim could succeed - here because the child's needs in this case were considered so extreme and outside what most LAs provided it did not succeed as breach of human rights, but legal opinion thought a case for a child with lesser SEN that was more within the range of what States should expect to provide might succeed. This is separate to whether the Education Act had been breached.

devientenigma Thu 25-Oct-12 22:41:12

interesting, DS has been out of school nearly 3 year and we have just turned the tables saying they are neglecting his needs so to speak.

inappropriatelyemployed Thu 25-Oct-12 22:43:10

I think also Agnes, in this case, wasn't the child out of time for an HRA claim and 2 of the dissenting judges would have considered an HRA case but wouldn't extend the time.

Have all the schools you've approached refused you? What is the LA doing? Have you taken advice to challenge it if you have identified a school?

inappropriatelyemployed Thu 25-Oct-12 22:45:08

OMG Dev - you are kidding me! Have you got a lawyer on this? Try Irwin Mitchell who seem prepared to fight a challenge or Chris Barnett at Levenes, very through.

There is a barrister called Steve Broach who is very combative for children with disabilities - I thoroughly recommend him.

inappropriatelyemployed Thu 25-Oct-12 22:45:50

If you need any contact details, let me know. You have my email. This is disgraceful.

silverfrog Thu 25-Oct-12 22:50:27

agree with agnes re: the 2:1 situation.

dd1's school have a couple of children who are 2:1. it is not 'just' a case of having enough staff members, but also space (both inside and outside) for everyone to be able to go about their business efficiently and safely.

I really cannot believe your situation, though dev. it seems your LA want it all ways around - no school place, won't supply sufficient staff for home tuition, won't sort out respite, or anxiety issues, etc.

I hope you can find a resolution soon.

devientenigma Thu 25-Oct-12 22:56:37

I am taking all this on board, sounds a bit of a cop out but life is in a turmoil enough blush

AgnesDiPesto Thu 25-Oct-12 23:07:50

Yes AE you're right was a time issue too
There was suggestion some children could be so far outside the norm it may take time to arrange provision, but 3 years, no way!
Steve Broach was barrister for NAS on that case I see - be worth contacting him - at Doughty Street Chambers - he can't take a case direct but can direct you to a solicitor he thinks would help

ilikemysleep Fri 26-Oct-12 10:27:51

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ilikemysleep Fri 26-Oct-12 10:34:09

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ilikemysleep Sat 27-Oct-12 08:29:32

Hi, I put too much detail in my earlier posts, could have outed myself. What I was basically saying is that some local authorities do community based programmes for 2:1 students, but would only work if ds was secondary age.

devientenigma Sat 27-Oct-12 14:00:19

Hi, what type of community based programme? he is secondary but functioning pre school academically if that helps.

ilikemysleep Sat 27-Oct-12 15:30:25

Oh, may not work so well then. The ones I know about involve using libraries, community buildings etc for learning. The kids are 2:1 in the community, usually 2 TAs, but work set and marked by teacher from SS that they remain on roll with. The kids have had some learning needs and, usually, autism spectrum, but are reading, writing etc and follow gcse coursework if they can.

If he is preschool level I think he would need a school setting. If local Ss can't meet his needs then LA will have to look independent, won't they....

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