Behaviour at school

[drypond]

I am getting pulled up nearly every day because ds 3 and 10 months as done x y or z. He is possibly asd or ADHD but school are only having issues outside and in the dinner hall he is ok in class.

Today he had to be brought out of the diner hall, time before he'd been fighting with a knife and fork, pushing children in the play ground that kind of thing. Sometimes he comes home and I haven't been told but he quite honestly will say Ive hit a girl because she was chasing me ect.

I don't know what to do, I don't want to stop ds having dinners at school or he will be even worse without dinner in his belly, I just dont know what to suggest to school. We have a caf at back end of november and Waiting on community pead observing him in school I'm already feeling slightly shunned by people at the school gate because I'm being pulled all the time :(

[1950sThrowback]

know how you feel re: the parents keeping their distance, bet the teachers on duty conveniently aren't loooking your direction while that is going on..(or putting out a hand to help)...Your ds needs more supervision and support at times he finds difficult - and possibly to be separated from other children during unstructured times. Ideally I'd have him eating his lunch with two or three other children to begin with - on a table with an adult. Similar for playtimes. I wouldn't be horribly surprised tho if school act as though you have asked them to hire a rocket ship.... but hey

With an ASD or ADHD child who is so young, discussing the event afterwards isn't really going to be enough to change his behaviour - they need to manage the situation at the time.

Personally I would NOT withdraw him until the community paed has had a chance to see him in action. I know it is hideous to know that your child is having difficulties BUT paed needs to see the difficulties and help you put pressure on the school to fix things up to so that in time (hopefully) he WILL be able to manage or manage a lot better in the playground and in the dinner hall. But that's assuming paed is coming soon....and I don't know your ds - only you can reallu judge what is best for him

[drypond]

Thanks, i just want him to be happy at school he was so happy at his old nursery but this is a good school and very supportive so far it's just the being pulled that's hard. Just reminds me how difficult ds can be and I just have a feeling community paed will observe him when he's being good.

He's doing better but his behaviour as just got worse :( think I'll have a word with his actual teacher in the morning

[Ineedalife]

I would ask them to do a home link book instead of coming to you in the playground.

What do they expect you to do about his behaviour that might have happened 3 hours ago??

It is bonkers, they need to carry out whatever behaviour management scheme they have in place and note anything really bad in his link book. End of then you go home and spend a nice evening with your little boy.

I think you need to speak to the SENCO not the Class Teacher he or she should be putting something in to place to support your Ds at lunchtime.

Good luck[hsmile]

[used2bthin]

My dd used to struggle at break times and the dinner hall and it seems to be down to her sensory issues. She still lashes out now except its in class too atm, I know that horrible feeling of wondering whats happened all the way to school.

Others are right though, its school who need to work out how to support him. I asked our OT to go in and talk to school about her sensory issues which sort of helped. They should be looking at why he struggles at those times and working to help him. So frustrating I know as I am still having issues but keep reminding myself it is all new still so they are still settling in.

[drypond]

They have been supportive in trying to get ds help, they are pushing for a diagnosis or working diagnosis at the moment because as.things are we aren't able to access disability nurses or early birds for help at home, the behaviour first few weeks was not too bad it's got worse. Im wondering though if his teacher knows because she doesn't seem to be there when I pick him up. I'll talk with SENCO too because she is the one pushing for the services to be involved.

I just didn't expect to be shunned at the school gates especially by someone I've known years and our kids have known each other since they where born :( looks like he's going to be labeled naughty by other parents for now :(

[used2bthin]

Missed that bit sorry. It is very hard. I honestly think some parents just don't know what to say but it is so hurtful I know. I have recently ended up chatting to other parents of children with SN (a couple have NT children in my dd's year but have older ones with sn) and it has made a difference as I know I am not alone iyswim, and you won't be either it can take a while to get to know who ime.

I am also struggling massively at home with my dd, in fact I had to go to the GP several times to get a referral to PCAHMS, still not seen them. Like you we have no diagnosis as such so it can be hard to access support.

I have been using visual aids and stuff at home which helps a bit but still not great either so I really sympathise, its awful. I rang earlybirds btw and they have put us on the waiting list without diagnosis as I said we probably will have one soon. May be worth it? Also challenging behaviour foundation sent me a dvd and have given phone support as have the NAS.

[coff33pot]

If school are pushing to help you for help and a diagnosis then have a meeting with the senco and the head and the teacher and ask them to treat him as if he does have asd/adhd.

There are lots of things they can put into place for him now that not only helps him but can help other kids.

If it is asd/adhd then the last thing they want to do is pull him out of any dinner/playtimes as he needs all the excercise he can get. Ask them to think of something else like stickers earning free time to do something of his choice but losing minutes of free time for behaviour instead.

Dinner times....suggest he goes in ten minutes early to avoid queing and the hussle and bustle so he is sat eating maybe with a couple others by the time the rest come in. If he finishes early then he gets out into playground early enough to charge around at will.

Give him a separate work station (quiet area) out of the class room. Reward him every time he uses it instead of getting wound up and keep the rewards coming for the simplest things like being polite, saying thank you to a peer etc.

Dont give him time out call it chill out because he needs a break.

Playtimes are unstructured and one of the worse times for children with sensory or social issues and they need monitoring and guiding with teachers acting as role models for the social side and support to read the stress levels for them so that a "chill out" can be suggested rather than as a punisment.

Tell them you would rather a home/school book please as it is getting upsetting discussing your ds issues in public plus as they realise he is hopefully under assessment and all the information gathered in a home book can help a proffessional understand your DS and what is making him anxious. If not then could they meet with you once a week for 10 mins and talk it all through or email you.

[grinnbareit]

We had pretty much the same for 2 yrs if it wasn't that it was him refusing to do his work, we just kept going around in circles thinking we were tackling one then got pulled up about the other in the end Ds was constantly on pins because they were threatening him with us..which I doubt was helping matters. I felt physically sick when it was time to collect Ds. Parents shunned me so now I just don't bother sod em. Thing is he is awaiting furthers assessments for ASD so if that is the cause of his difficulties he will probably have these same struggles if we were to move him.

For the time being they can deal with it their way but my Ds now knows the only time I will not be happy is if he has been badly behaved and thats when I have sat down and listened to his version of events before hand. I was so sick of it all that I asked for a diary and then had a very stern talking to by Ds's teacher because I dared ask for her to document his behavior, I wanted to see why it may be happening and see if I needed to make any changes at home.

Dammed if you don't 'n' dammed if you do!

[shoppingbagsundereyes]

Re the other parents - what I did when ds was this age and hitting other children constantly was make a point of talking to the most gossipy, confident mum in the playground and 'confiding' in her that ds had a neurological problem that he couldn't help his behaviour but we were working with pre school to help as much as possible. Within a week all the parents were much more understanding and the pre school leader was getting fewer parental complaints about ds.

[shoppingbagsundereyes]

Also they need to be keeping some kind of ABC working document. Ds' school couldn't be bothered but it would have been really helpful. So A is antecedent (what was happening before the behaviour) B is behaviour and C is the consequence for his actions. I think too few schools concentrate on the B and C but don't look at the A. For my ds A could be things like it being too noisy, too windy, him being too hungry, other children getting in his space etc etc. if you know the A you can try to prevent the B.
Apologies if you already know about ABC, I didn't until ages after ds was struggling.

[grinnbareit]

shoppingbags that's pretty much what we asked for but the teacher said there is no before??, apparently the teacher knows what kind of a day she will have by the way he enters school, yet when our Ds is on his way into school he seems fine to me. No avoidance techniques like last year, slept well, ate breakfast, dressed slightly quicker than usual so as far as I am concerned there is a before.

[mariammma]

Ring community paed secretary and ask her if he would find a behaviour record chart useful for the planned assessment. She will probably say yes. Then it's not you asking, it's the pesky NHS

[mariammma]

Or call it a STAR chart: a piece of paper with a 4 pointed star, one point each for

Situation (aka distant antecedent)
Trigger (immediate antecedent)
Action (the behaviour)
Response (consequence)

Better for visual thinkers, who can be rather routine-bound, oppositional and take words like behaviour and consequence literally.... Like most schools

[SallyBear]

I think that coff33pot's advice is excellent. The lunch queue is probably a trigger for him and then it spills out into the playground. I'm assuming that he has free flow during the day to go in and out inbetween their learning objectives and carpet time work? How is he during these times? I also think that a quiet place to destress is also very effective.