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School Trip - should I bother (sorry long -- I'm rly confused)

(17 Posts)
WhyOhWhyDidHeDoIt Wed 17-Oct-12 14:02:37

Namechanged as it will be obvious to my ds's entire class who I am - which is one thing, but I want to go back to being anonymous AFTER this thread,

Aspergers son in year 6 - school collecting evidence for a statement and for the time being, I'm inclined to let them handle it as Senco seems to know what evidence LEA need - she's been doing the role for years. A description of his behaviour would be more like ADD - in that he won't sit still in class, he shouts out, he won't focus on the task in hand, and he is pretty clueless about social aspects.
The school has a "5-step" behaviour procedure. As far as I am aware his worst behaviour is still considered step 2 - namely annoying other children, not working when told to and persistent "step 1" behaviour - the kind of things I mentioned before - fidgeting and not listening.
Anyways had informal chat with HT (first mistake i suspect) about the trip and it was obvious that she had no intention of allowing him to go - she has "seen his behaviour" and it isn't going to improve (admittedly I think she meant it isn't going to improve before the trip...

Have since spoken to SENCO as she was the first person I could see next day in the playground who knows him - and she denied any knowledge of him behaving really I have asked HT to to explain EXACTLY what she has seen him do - as if he has been up to something I need to deal with it.

I was then going to fill in the form and ask for a discussion on "whether they could meet his needs" - if nothing else, if they say "no" - I thought this could be evidence for statement....

Then horror of horrors last night a note came home in his school bag - he had put a noose around another child's neck at playtime. So even though I think HT initially made an unfair decision and any risk assessment she might do would just prove her initial decision - she now has the evidence that he can't be trusted.

BUT is it still worth me fronting it out and putting in the form - so that they go through the motions of rejecting him ? Apparently the trip has been going for about 6 years and only once before have they barred a child from attending (but this HT is new this year).

The other thing is having heard what she said DH is definitely NOT going to allow him to go away on a trip with HT even if she did allow him to go....

sorry if this is rambling, but I am really really confused about what to do next.

AttilaTheMeerkat Wed 17-Oct-12 14:16:12

Re this part of your comment;-

"Aspergers son in year 6 - school collecting evidence for a statement and for the time being, I'm inclined to let them handle it as Senco seems to know what evidence LEA need - she's been doing the role for years"

No. You'd be far better off applying for such a document now and personally as schools can sit on such applications for ages without doing anything. Use IPSEA's website if you want to know what to write.
Also if such an application to assess is refused by the LEA the school have no right of appeal but you do. Therefore it is far better to appky for it yourself.

Put the trip form in asap and take it from there.

How long is the duration of the school trip?. This school seem unable to meet any of his additional needs currently.

WhyOhWhyDidHeDoIt Wed 17-Oct-12 14:44:23

it's 3 days Attila

starfishmummy Wed 17-Oct-12 15:55:09

If you want him to go on the trip then I would put the form in straight away and make sure you hand it over so they can't say your ds forgot to hand it in.

Then I would sugget you start reading up on the equality act and start quoting it to them!

WhyOhWhyDidHeDoIt Wed 17-Oct-12 17:36:08


auntevil Wed 17-Oct-12 18:54:13

Is it PGL trip?
I ask as when DS school go they are really clued up on SN/SEN and have no problems in accommodating our DCs.
If it's really low level behaviour, then I would imagine a good handful of children would also have been refused to go on trip.
The school really can't have it every which way. If his behaviour is low level step 1 or 2, then they have no grounds to refuse a place. If his behaviour is more serious, then they should be giving you far more support, and you should have been notified of this.
Personally, I would check with the holiday place and find out what their policy is. If they would have been happy to have your DS, then you know at what stage the 'risk assessment' failed

WhyOhWhyDidHeDoIt Wed 17-Oct-12 22:23:00

No - not PGL, but that is a very interesting point - thanks Aunt as one of the things that is bothering me is that I really wouldn't want him to go if he IS going to cause problems. I'd be mortified - particularly if I have made a fuss in order to secure a place.

ilikemysleep Wed 17-Oct-12 22:55:10

Look up this site -

If the school is making a blanket decision that your son cannot attend a school trip months in advance (or even weeks in advance) without attempting to accommodate him - (and your son's behaviour is challenging because of his disability) - eg by risk assessing and making 'reasonable adjustments' - is illegal as it is in breach of the equalities act. Print out some of the free downloadables from the site, highlight a few relevant sections, get a parent partnership representative to come to a meeting with you if you are a bit intimidated, and wave the legislation at them.

This has nothing to do with whether or not he is going through statutory assessment, it's a completely different issue, it's direct discrimination because of a disability. Don't let your DH enable them to have your son miss out on a fab experience. I had to support a parent in this exact same scenario with her aspergers son (whose behaviour was admittedly a lot more challenging than what you are describing in relation to your son) against a school - he went and was brilliantly well behaved, with a little extra thought and planning it can be done.

coff33pot Wed 17-Oct-12 23:28:11

If they are "preparing" for a statement then they are well aware that he needs support due to his disability.

That doesnt mean refusing to send him on a trip that means making it possible that he can go by meeting his needs 2 to 1 if necessary.

They should be saying to you what can we do to ensure he has an inclusive time.

Ok so the noose bit is a bit scary no doubt for the other child but its an impulsive act due to disability. And as they are aware he is fidgety and impulsive then they should be watching him so how in hell did it take so long for them to do something that a noose was actually around a childs neck in the first place?

Apply for the statement yourself. Its easy and the rest ie. reports will come together along the way.

WhyOhWhyetc Thu 18-Oct-12 15:01:31

thanks again every one - thanks for the website ilikemysleep -( is that your handiwork then?) had a convo this morning with one of the staff members who knows him better than the HT does and it was a lot more positive, so hopefully the initial misunderstanding may well be close to a resolution.

ilikemysleep Thu 18-Oct-12 16:42:58

Hi WhyOhWhy

It's not my website, no, but the lady who runs it has done some talks in our local authority.

I just find the parents guide to equalities act free download very useful.

mariammma Fri 19-Oct-12 23:17:46

Wtf? Your supposedly supervised dc had a noose around someone's neck and you weren't phoned up immediately??? And the HT actually spoke to you but didn't think to mention it? They're very lucky he didn't decide to noose himself or a sibling at home later that evening.

Never mind risk assessing the trip, they need to be risk assessing Mon-Fri 8.50-3.20 and telling you how they'll keep your dc and the other kids safe now.

mariammma Fri 19-Oct-12 23:19:50

Really, sod the trip, their competence to supervise any under-18 in any setting, even for a few hours, is now completely discredited.

mariammma Fri 19-Oct-12 23:27:34

Ok, email HT cc someone important at LEA. And possibly cc social services too (in case school then refer to cover own backsides)

Dear HT
Further to our conversation date x, in which you said y might not be safe to go on trip, my husb and I share your serious concerns. The note in his bag today describing the serious incident of placing a noose round another pupils neck causes us to be very fearful.

We will let you know our thoughts on the proposed exclusion from the trip once we have spoken to our [insert professional, GP would do] meanwhile we require your written assurance that he will be under the direct close supervision of a competent adult at all times when in your schools care.

mariammma Fri 19-Oct-12 23:33:45

Should there be further instances of dangerous behaviour, please phone us immediately with full details. A delay of x days, and then being informed via a brief note in the schoolbag was not ideal.

We have safety checked our home for strangulation hazards and are keeping a close eye on him. Luckily, the delay in being able to start these precautions has not resulted in any serious harm.

TheAccidentalExhibitionist Sat 20-Oct-12 09:18:13

We had this issue with a 4 day school trip recently. I went with my son, the school wasn't keen for me to attend as they felt it would change the dynamics of the trip but they were open mixed and supportive - unlike your DS school. It worked very well for us.
I agree though that there is a bigger issue at stake here, namely the competence of your DS school.

myBOYSareBONKERS Sat 20-Oct-12 09:22:24

Where did he get a noose from at school????

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